N's Are Smarter Than S's -- MBTI

Nope.

• reply

Darwin was ET(S1)
Faraday was ES(T1)
and most doctors tend to be ES(F1+T2) or ES(F1)

There are plenty of good Sensor leaders, who lived as a president. For example ( and this is according to Socionics theory, Napoleon / Caesar where Sensors (ESFp) . . .

b.t.w just from quickly going through your list of people . . .Billgates is a INTP ...

further intresting read: http://www.personalitynation.com/blogs/yukawa/600-yukawa-not-so-intj-pre...

Also based upon your writing style you appear verry S, no metaphors or analogy was used

• reply

Unfortunately this is true.

• reply

Although I am an INTP (IQ unknown), I'm not influential at all. It is kind of difficult to live with these characteristics and at my 26, I'm still learning it.

Maybe that's why you feel, that there must be less than 25% of Ns. Many of us give up and rather integrate with the majority. When Einstein got an F on the math, he could have easily given up, live with the "fact", that he is math-dumb, find an ordinary job and wife and then die...

Btw how could anyone tell the IQ of long dead people, like Napoleon or Beethowen?

• reply

Great site, we possibly share the same temperament and though Im older, your writing style is very professional and one Im working to match. Keep researching... It took me many years of research to understand the biblical truths because of so many "judgemental" and "Concrete" thinking Christians who are held up as the "Elite". Interesting these Elite are prophesied to be fooled by a coming deception - they always gloss over that scripture......

• reply

Why would you waste time proving such a point? I'm sorry, I don't mean any disrespect, but this whole article seems rather arrogant and petty.

• reply

i'm surprised there's someone who think like me. haha. i'm tired with these stupid S people around me who never understand what i'm talking about. even Ns who have lower iq than me are waayy better than Ss who have quite the same iq. they just don't get it T_T

• reply

Sensing is a much more primitive, basic, and simple function than intuiting. Intuiting is a far more advanced, sophisticated function. It's relatively easy to make robots that can sense things. It's very challenging to make robots that can intuit things. I don't think that's even been accomplished yet. According to research, the N/S factor has the highest correlation to IQ out of the four letters. If you are a sensor then that basically means you have the ability to take in the environment but sensors generally have little or no intellectual ability to analyze, deeply understand, etc. the things they sense. They don't have a good ability to recognize patterns or gain true insights into things. Intuiting is intelligent. Sensing is dumb. Sensors basically live a non-thinking way of life. Their level of thinking is as deep and sophisticated as a puddle of water.

I really get sick and tired of politically correct people deciding whether something is true or false based on whether it makes other people feel good. That's stupid. I'm sooo sorry if it makes sensors feel bad that they're idiots, but it's still the truth and I'm not going to deny the truth just because some people don't like the truth.

I've noticed that sensors in general are really shallow, superficial, and basically stupid in how they think. This is why they can't come up with intelligent ideas, because they don't understand things well enough. Many things just fly over their dumb heads.

• reply

Haha, sounds like somebody got dumped by an S. ^

• reply

Show you an S?

George Washington-(ISTJ) was the dominant military and political leader of the new United States of America from 1775 to 1799. He led the American victory over Great Britain in the American Revolutionary War as commander-in-chief of the Continental Army from 1775 to 1783, and presided over the writing of the Constitution in 1787. The unanimous choice to serve as the first President of the United States (1789–1797), Washington presided over the creation of a strong, well-financed national government that stayed neutral in the wars raging in Europe, suppressed rebellion and won acceptance among Americans of all types. His leadership style established many forms and rituals of government that have been used since, such as using a cabinet system and delivering an inaugural address. Washington is universally regarded as the "Father of his Country".
Dr. Dwight Harken (ESTJ)
Harken served in the U.S. Army Medical Corps in London as a surgeon. To treat his patients, he found a way to take out shrapnel safely from the heart by cutting into the wall of a beating heart, then inserting a finger to locate and remove the shrapnel. With this method, he became the first person to have repeated success in heart operation after removing shrapnel from the hearts of 130 soldiers during the war without a single fatality.

Jack Kilby (ISTJ) He would talk about his love of his morning coffee more than he would talk about his accomplishments. Invented the integrated circuit aka the microchip. By definition the intergrated circuit or microchip is a set of interconnected electronic components such as transistors and resistors, that are etched or imprinted on a onto a tiny chip of a semiconducting material, such as silicon or germanium. The microchip shrunk the size and cost of making electronics and impacted the future designs of all computers and other electronics. The first successful demonstration of the microchip was on September 12, 1958.

But yes, you are right, S's are dumb and primative. They really are just a waste of space and should be done away with. We should look back at some of the N's who really had this same idea and take a note from them.

You are alll fools for believing something like this, and the fact that you would put your faith in a man made test about men reveals your lack of wisdom and insight into humanity. Please, when you look at yourself introspectively, and realize that you, an N, are quite smart, but need to humble yourself and take the gifts you posse to really help others besides playing on your computer all day and obtaining copious amounts of knowledge you will never apply. We will all one day die, and stand before our maker who will ask you what you did with all that he had given you, but if you did nothing, He will take little Timmy with Downs into his presence because you did nothing but elevate yourself above others. Sad.

• reply

Then explain to me, please, how this guy I know, who's anti-social, who does nothing but play silly video games and sporcle 24/7, won various competitions in his high school and had a perfect ACT- better than 99.95% of all who took it. I'm honestly curious; I'm not accusing your article. I simply desire an explanation: I don't understand how someone who's so intelligent can be so utterly, well, dumb and thoughtless, or how an S can be so intelligent and yet so unintelligent at the same time as to waste his gifts like that.

• reply

I'm an INTP, I can completely relate to the spirit of this argument. However, if I may fully deploy my INTP-sourced powers of abstraction and add an additional perspective:

The people in the list have mainly been influential in shifting the society from one paradigm of thought to another. They could visualise and articulate a world or understanding that was different to what everyone else could see. Most N's are like this... and I would imagine that most of us feel like we are constantly on the outside looking in.

In the real world, however, most business leaders and politicians are S's rather than N's and they are influential from a non-strategic because they better able to connect with the majority. STJ's and SFJ's make up about half of "Anglo / Saxon / Celtic" society, STP's and SFP's are 25% and as you say, the remaining four categories of N's make up the rest.

We need our S's to do the work for us as well, someone has to do the boring jobs!! We often also don't develop the skills to articulate our thoughts effectively - so perhaps we should work together a bit more and make sure that more of us can make more meaningful contributions to society.

Kind regards
Peter

• reply

Btw, Barack Obama is an ENFP and George Bush is a classic ESFJ.

Most liberals and anarchists are Intuitives and most conservatives are Sensors. (surprise surprise)

• reply

You make it seem as if N's are so much better than S's. As if the potential to do something somehow makes you a better person, even though you haven't done it. Everyone is capable of intuition, Slayerment. Take a look at the cognitive functions of each type.

I really think you should deflate that over-inflated ego of yours.

• reply

I'm going to protest this "informative" article. I am an ISTJ through and through. I live in reality more than anyone. The N types may be smart, but they all lack common sense. That lack of common sense usually gets them in trouble. Book smarts is not better than street smarts. Book smart people tend to get killed in the battlefield because they don't have shit to go by, only theory and ideals. If you would say that you are an S type, then you are weak. If you are an N, then you are arrogant. Whoever wrote this article, I do believe you can go fuck yourself.

• reply

Not that I disagree with everything you're saying but the way you are writing makes me think you are just trying to stir up controversy. I think you may lose some credibility that way and you probably should. I don't think saying that S's are good for a laugh but aren't too intelligent is a fair thing to decide, especially because a lot of intelligences won't show up in statistics or as numbers. I don't know, but it seems biased and that maybe you're saying the intelligence that you value is the more important one

• reply

Hmm... I don't know, man. Your article is well-written and very persuasive (and I'd like to commend you for having the courage to appear as the bad guy), but I don't buy everything entirely. While its true that Se dominants are usually short-sighted and Si dominants are hardasses, this doesn't make us intuitives better people than them. Sure, we're awesome at abstraction. And we're proud of it. But its not like we signed up for intuitive intelligence in the first place. Did you really think we "chose our path of evolution"? Please. We merely went with what we felt comfortable with as children. Try not to oversell our origins.
Many of us intuitives get victimized by sensors at some point, but this doesn't justify writing an article with the not-so-veiled intention of screaming, "check out mai datas proving we best people of all!!!11!!!!!111!!!1!!!!" You should know better. We all should know better.
An N can be an S but an S can't be an N? Tell me something, Can you actually turn on your awareness of sensation for many hours without feeling fucked up at the end? If you can, then that explains why you wrote the article. It feels like a sensor wrote it.
Okay maybe you're not a sensor. But honestly, there's little evidence of intuition in your article. Most intuitives wouldn't even bother writing this. Do you know why? It's not because no one's brave enough to do so. It's because honest intuitives would have turned their internal judging functions towards themselves and their like first before even attempting to count the reasons why sensors are dumb. There's just no justice to this, not in the way you used especially harsh words to describe your points. The bias is strong with this one.
If this was an article merely stating how intuitives are more influential and remembered than sensors, it would've been cool. What's next, "Why extroverts suck"?
As a Fi-Ne, I'm imperfect. And somewhat prone to this kind of bias as well. I know where you're coming from. Just think things through more thoroughly next time. Sensors are okay if you understand how to deal with them.

• reply

"I'm not really bashing Sensors. I'm just saying they're not leaders, because they're clearly not. Most people are Sensors so I better learn how to deal with them. Sensors make great employees which is why I hire them. Sensors are great at doing what they're told."

"Sensors are great at doing what they are told?" Fuck you. You sound as if you are higher than the Lord almighty. Like I said, you are arrogant. I'm an ISTJ who have lead many in my wake. For their good and not mine. You probably don't know anything about selflessness. Apparently George Washington, Andrew Johnson, Benjamin Harrison, Harry Truman and many others were not leaders. Your statement contradicts itself. You are too proud to admit that you are and can ever be in the wrong regardless of the evidence presented to you (much like the intuitive types). Why don't you get off your high horse, get a grip of reality? Grow some balls and give it up. There are many more against your ridiculous claims and you don't know when to shut up.

You like the attention you get from the responses of your article, don't you? How weak.

slayerment, I do believe you can suck on your puny high-and mighty little dick, because no one else will.

• reply

My dad is istj and I am intj. He's a doctor, I'm studying to become one. We are like twins, exactly the same except I am N he is S. I can relate to this article well because I feel as if I out smart him. Here's why. he is very simple minded. For instance one time he told me to drive in the right left instead of the left because people in the left lane are more likely to get pulled over according to a study. He did however want me going the same speed. I said to him well maybe that just means speeders are more likely to go to the left lane, they would have probably gotten pulled over driving like that in any lane and if I drive within X speed in the left lane I should be fine. He fumbled around his words and I obeyed simply because he's my dad. I was very disappointed with him not because of simply that but by his linear form of thinking which also goes with stocks. One of the rules of stocks, which many great stock investors adhere to and my dad keeps advocating, is to never short sell a stock. Well one day my stocks were plummeting and I had reason to believe they would go lower in the future. What did I do? I sold my stocks, and then I bought more of the same stocks when they did in fact go lower. I short sold. Simply put, I earned more stocks. My dad however called me a bad investor because I broke the no short selling rule. This is the difference between us, I am not bound by conventional rules. I think of the possibilities, am constantly calibrating my strategies if new circumstances are realized, and am constantly sharpening my edge of logic. It never ends.He, however, remains stuck in fixed simple rules. Us Ns are not bound by rules. We make them. I guess that's why at the end of the day I earned more stocks than him. He might as well have given all his money to me, an N, because his S simply wasn't reaping as much benefits. Clear differences between istj vs intj.

PS: there's a reason why *N*Ts (note the emphasis on the N) is branded as the "INTELLECTS" of the four temperaments.

• reply

more than 1-kg of brain (at insignificant dispersion and sensibly same number of neurons throughout human individuals) generates an incommensurable amount of predicates, which lurk in our underwater unconscious, networking silently a (potentially surprisingly) coherent and articulated system of truths... the underwater network breaks sometimes through the thick ice that separates the mind from the unconsciuous, in the shape of scintillations we commonly call intuition... the number and amplitude of these breakthroughs is different from human to human (depending maybe on the ice geometry - thickness, landscaping, etc, which has been / is continuously shaped by nurture, nature and degree of urgence)... but the enormous underwater network... is there (and supposedly the same) in all of us... on the course of being painstackingly-slowly revealed by evolution (and by - who knows what - star bursts)

• reply

Just for the record, I really like your response Mags. It showed a lot of MBTI insight and NF touch :). In my opinion, some people here should maybe read some books on the topic, as most of what is discussed here has been discussed already at some length by great contributors to the theory (e.g. Jung, Briggs, Keirsey). These books clearly state that N's, and in particular IN's have a higher IQ, which they support with statistical evidence (e.g. M.B. Gifts Differing). One should notice here however that Intelligence is a very loosely defined concept, but if we use it as most IQ test seem to use it, Intelligence and the IQ describes one's ability to understand abstract concepts and relationships, which is almost identical to the Briggs definition of Intuition. When we expand the definition of Intelligence to how David Keirsey uses it in his book, "Please understand me II", intelligence is rather defined as one's ability to effect something. In his book he then defines four intelligences including Strategic, Diplomatic, Logistical and Tactical. In with this definition of IQ, we would have to argue that current IQ test are somewhat misleading, because they only represent a very specific for of intelligence while neglecting other, I would say equally important ones. In the example here, these four intelligences are represented best by the NT's, NF's, SJ's and SP's respectively. The highly abstract thinker, IN's are not included there. Also not included is the "leader type" EJ or the quiet leader type IJ. What is a bit sad to see here is that people sometimes seem to use the MBTI exactly for the opposite of its intention in using it to unfairly profile people or use type to justify why one doesn't like another, rather than to facilitate mutual understanding. In fact, Gifts Differing mentions that Myers Briggs set out to develop the jungian types during the second world war, one to help women effectively enter the workforce and two, because she believed if people would have a better understanding of each other something like WWII could never have happened. This is very sad because it's actually quite simple: SP have a wonderful tactical ability... They are the first at an emergency and INTUITIVELY know what to do... ISFP's just make the world a more beautiful place without needing to explain it, ESTP's get shit done, ISTP's build this world and give us extreme sports and ESFP's are just funny as hell. SJ's keep our shit together, ISTJ's LEAD our industries, ISFJ's care and care and care and care..... ESFJ's make the best parties etc. etc. etc. Ohh, I forgot, SJ's also invent... just new ways of logistical efficiency and not some abstract blabla that occasionally leads to mass extermination or other serious neglect of human rights. There is so much more to say about this topic, but i really hope that people start to use type to see the beauty in others, and stop disregarding those who are different. Isn't it diversity that fosters change and innovation in the first place?

My opinion here is to read and build on the fundamental MBTI books. there is really no need to rediscover things that have already been so widely discussed and heavily researched.

• reply

Ok. For a minute I thought I was 15 again and sitting around the dinner table with my two NT brothers. Hahaha! There were six family members. Five of them were N's. Talk about debates and theories. All the S's called it arguing and "stupid". I believe your theory is true that N's are movers and shakers and on AVERAGE brighter than S's. There are some S's I know that are very bright. Most of them aren't. All the N's I know are very bright. You win that argument.

However, gee, do you think you could have said it a little nicer? But I suppose that's because you're a T and not and Feeler like me.

Also, while N's may be on average more influential, we most certainly need S's. All the great men and women of the past would not have amounted to anything if the S's had not bought into their great ideas. Those SJ's are amazing workers.

All that to say, yeah, good theory. But, being the N you are, you should see the value of the S's that surround us.

• reply

I love how loosely you relate all this to "F*** socialism!".
Did you know that studies have shown that people with high IQ are more likely to be lefties on the political scale? And by a lot too! So, since most high-IQ people are N's, you can at least see tendencies towards N = lefty.
That you then link to an article that just is non-arguments lined up is really quite absurd and almost offensive to anyone with half a brain.
And if you still think people shouldn't be "un-natural", then please, by all means, get rid of all your modern commodities and go live in a cave in Africa.
Fun fact; there isn't a single now living species that hasn't been affected by the industrialised world.
The industraliazation is the reason why people doesn't have anything to do anymore, so they have all this spare time to go on the internet and tell people about other people they don't like or agree with. Quite ironic when you think about it.

• reply

I'm an INTP and I've spent a long time thinking about this exact subject, mostly because I dated a girl for three years who was every bit an ESFJ. When I say she was an S, she was a big time S. Her practicality dominated everything she did. Her practicality was almost like an internal dictator, because anytime she did get an idea, like opening a coffee shop, her practical side crushed her back to the status quo.

But she was also very intelligent. Her IQ was above average and not in any way insignificant. As a matter of fact both of our IQs are around 140. The difference is when I'm spending all of my time in abstract thought, she's worried about killing her dandelions, and whether or not she needs an oil change, or when she should get air in her tires. That's the kind of crap I don't want to worry about. As a matter of fact, I've tried to avoid practical tasks since I was a kid. I've always considered that kind of activity as a supreme waste of my time.

My point is, IQ is most likely independent of MBTI personality type. But the MBTI personality type will dictate how that IQ is used. I'm certain that even though she is very intelligent and a logical thinker she will never contribute greatly to society, because, essentially, the Sensor part of her personality is so strong it makes her a peasant.

Think of it in this imperfect analogy: Once upon a time there was a clan of human thousands of years ago. They live in a valley where they farm crops and raise livestock. The land, however, acfter decades of farming is getting worn out. Their crop aren't as bountiful as they used to be. A small faction of the clan, adventurers, explores, all of the probably Ns, have this idea that there is another valley out beyond the realms anyone has ever traveled. Maybe beyond the mountains, past the forbidden lands no one in their right mind should ever go. The adventurers try to explain tbheir vision to the more practical, Sensor farmers, who doubt them and ridicule them for "having their head in the clouds" (believe me my girl as belittled me with this phrase before). The adventurers set out anyway, because they have this vision for a better farm land, better crop yields better places to raise livestock. So they go find this better place. Then the whole clan moves there. The practical farmers farm the land and everything works out. But the farmers would never find this new land themselves. For them, the new land does not exist because thapey can not see it with the five senses. But the explorers know it's there.

What it comes down to is this:

Sensors=peasants

Intuitives=visionaries

There's also one crucial element in whether or not a human can greatly contribute to society. I call it TQ. We're all familiar with IQ. TQ is the same thing, but it's an indicator of talent. You won't find anything about this in the Internet because I deciphered this part of human nature through my own systematical breakdown of mankind. So there's no empirical evidence for the existence of TQ. Nevertheless, it exists, and it exists just as profoundly as gravity did before Sir Isaac made us aware that it did.

When you have an N, and more often than not, except in roles such as heads of state, and IN with a high TQ, you get greatness.

• reply

Fortunately for them, S's are less likely than N's to care about their personality type, or quantified intelligence, or similar abstract concepts- much less care about comparing theirs to others'. Perhaps that lack of concern for such inconsequential things reflects a sort of intelligence that's (at times, at least) more important than the sort of intelligence reflected in one's IQ or influence.

• reply

Unfortunately Jung's original work is meant to be about cognition as in 'the mind' and has nothing to do with your capabilities.

Even Isabel Myers-Briggs' original book introducing MBTI called 'Gift's differing' does not mention MBTI types in terms of capabilities. At the most she describes each type in a grouping of two in relation to their dominant cognitive function and gives some tendencies, but no absolutes.

There is a problem which has arisen online from influences such as David Keirsey, who sought to type people based entirely on social roles and outward behaviour, which has more to do with persona than true personality or inward cognition. Sadly this has resulted in nothing but a series of biases and stereotypes which do little to improve our understanding of ourselves which was Jung's original goal.

If you actually read Jung's work 'Psychological Types', (which MBTI stems from), you will realise that in his opinion most scientists are Sensors because they believe in the reality of their senses over the speculations of their Intuition. In contrast Intuitives are more likely to be those who hold superstitions or religious belief's.

Also Jung believed, through his heuristic evidence of having travelled the world and experiencing different cultures, that his psychological types were actually evenly distributed across the population.

Statistics on MBTI types cannot be trusted because of the nature of what it is the tests are measuring.

How can anyone know what a person truely thinks of themselves? Are they who they think they are? Are they who other people think they are? Or are they truely what they are? How do you sift between the persona and the ego to find the true cognition of the mind underneath?

Very often people take these test's in ignorance and possess no understanding of the material, thus picking rudimentary answers based around what 'seems' to be correct. On the other side are people who are well versed in the material, but these people tend to fall victim to biases and prejudices and so instead twist their answers to get the result they desire.

These same pre-conceived idea's are the reason that such a claim as intelligence being attributed to Intutition will always be true in your perception because you cannot conceive of the idea that a Sensor is intelligent. Thus we end up with intelligent sensors being defined as intuitives because people who possess no real understanding of MBTI or Carl Jung's work are letting their biases get in the way of intelligent understanding and rational reasoning.

How did you go about gathering the information for your famous people?

What empirical methods did you use? Are you aware of the difficulty in trying to acertain such information as IQ and MBTI type from a historical figure? More so the further back you go.

Now it is true that there is more empircism in the MBTI statistical method than Jung's heuristic one, but as I said; based on the nature of what it is that is being measured, all statistics are likely to be quite inaccurate.

We need to find a more reliable way of measuring personality if we are to truely gain any insight from such numbers.

Oh as a final point of interest, take a look at Karl Pilkington, he of Idiot Abroad fame. I suggest you listen to the podcasts with Him, Ricky Gervais and Stephen Merchant.

He is a fantastic example of an unintelligent INTP desperately trying to make sense of his own speculations and the systems of the world around him, which he cannot help but take apart and examine with his introverted thinking, (Ti) while coming up with assumptive concepts using extroverted intuition, (Ne).

Afterall intelligence is a multi-faceted concept which cannot be wholly defined by simple definitions.

It is not just what you think, but also what you do and how you do it. Unfortunately people are still not ready to let go of this perception that intelligence needs to be a competition instead of merely a tool to be utilised as best a person can.

Just remember, research the cognitive functions, dont read descriptions or trust online tests and most of all remember that it is about cognition.

Taking information in and evaluating it. That is all that it is.

I wonder what type you might consider me to be?

• reply

http://blog.minitab.com/blog/understanding-statistics/three-dangerous-st...

As everyone should know yet choose to ignore: correlation does not equal causation.

Is there a correlation between intelligence and iNtuitives? Yes.

Does that mean all iNtuitives are smarther than Sensors? No.

Is it possible that people-- especially "smart" people, and especially those who relate their own self worth with their intelligence -- sit down and take a Meyers/Briggs test and mistakenly type themselves as iNtuitives because all the "N questions" sound "smarter" than "S questions"? Surely.

• reply

Hey look, another idiot who thinks Ns are smarter than Ss.

• reply

Most geniuses are N. People with the highest IQs tend to be N. These are facts.
However the leadership premise is wrong. Ns are not always the best leaders. Being
N means you have doubts and are often in your own world. Not good leadership qualities. Most leaders in society tend to be S.

S are required to keep the world running. N are required to change it. The reason there are less N than S is that if there were too many N we would keeping shifting from one point of view to another and never get anything done. S are the back two wheels on the car that keep it moving. N are the front two which change the direction. Both are needed for the car to function.

• reply

Oh damn I forgot to mention: Have you ever considered the theory that IQ tests are made by intuitives for intuitive pattern recognition skills?

• reply

Heh I suppose I should take this argument a bit more seriously, but I cant help but be a little faecitious.

I actually thought you were joking in this blog to provoke a response...

• reply

Incidentally I forgot to add, you mentioned temperament theory?

You do realise that this is David Keirsey's work and even though he borrows the letter terminology from MBTI that's where the similarities stop. Id go so far as to say that it is basically a completely different theory based around behavioural observation, persona's and social roles, none of which really define a personality, but hey ho to each their own.

Which is precisely why you shouldn't cross it with a theory like MBTI which is mainly concerned with cognition and the inner workings of the mind.

• reply

Thanks to all the contributors to this debate, which I've thoroughly enjoyed. I'm an ENTP, and as some might be aware, we do like a good joust, and can play devil's advocate. So I'm going into bat for the Sensors.

Slayerment, I enjoyed your article, which reflects a very high IQ, but may I say your emotional intelligence (EQ) is very low. As Frank Zappa said, "If you take a dickhead and put him through an MBA, what you get is a dickhead with an MBA." I hardly think you did we iNtuitives any service at all by such alienating aspersions against the alternate qualities Sensors bring to the table.

Just remember that the only viable alternative to the socialism you despise is the tyranny of mediocraty that democracy delivers. You're hardly going to win hearts and minds this way.

If there's one fundamental truth our MBTI teaches us, it is that we iNtuitives are as much inverse cripples as Sensors. Too much of one thing, and not enough of the other.

You would do well to remember that MBTI measures dichotomies between extraversion and introversion, sensing and intuition, thinking and feeling, and judging and perception, and does not place value judgments on them, as you have.

You might like to consider the words of Niels Bohr (whom I've seen suggested is also an ENTP), who said "The opposite of a true statement is a false statement, but the opposite of one profound truth is more often than not another profound truth."

As an inverse cripple myself, I've spent many years trying to develop the exact things which are absent in my personality profile (i.e introverted iNtuition, feeling and judgmentalism). Find the humility to undertake such a personal journey to complete yourself, Sir, and you might even find a following at the end to change the world.

Best regards,
Andy

• reply

Terrific comment !

I'm an INTJ and like you have worked over the years to grow in those areas that are my natural weaknesses. It has taken many years and a lot of mistakes to come to the point where I no longer make myself 'wrong' or 'bad' for my weaknesses - - - or overly proud of my strengths. There is the flipside to a strength or a weakness, and MBTI theory has been a tool to help understand that.

I am of a libertarian bent. One of the people I admire most is Thomas Jefferson, an NT.

He was a man who helped inspire people toward Liberty. I think that freedom is the only way for people to grow into their best selves, and thus for a society of people to grow in the best manner. Given humanity's history and the current state of the world, this might be worth trying out. Perhaps talented NTs might best use their abilities to figure out how to educate and inspire others who approach the world differently than NTs. A great man, Thomas Jefferson, did so. Study his life. Just read the Declaration of Independence - - - which has inspired people throughout the world for over 200 years.

I am repeating a bit of the theme that I wrote in an earlier statement, but wanted to include it again with more recent posts at the end of these comments on the original article. I think it particulary approrpiate on this July 4th Independence Day.

• reply

N types have been more influential in the world... it depends from the perspective, from the fat-ass humans perspective yeah, from a universal view where we're almost invisible parasites then it wouldn't matter if someone built CERN, invented halo or is a football player, sings crappy songs or is a hipster that believes is the deepest person of the world...
by the way i'm not sure if i'm a istp or intp some part of me feels offended... anyway if i'm an istp i would like to be a slave of a intj he/she would know how to use me properly, no a annoying nf please god... neither a stupid sj worse if it's a feeler...

• reply

This convo may be getting old but just wanted to add my analysis of a couple "historical figures." (just for fun of course. this can't be called science)
My background is lit and psychology and I am a scholar studying author psychology and its relationship to prose style. In my pseudo-professional opinion Shakespeare was not an INFP. I myself am a hard INFP and though I love Shakespeare we are very different.
In my opinion Shakespeare was a definite ESFP, the "Performer" as it is sometimes called. He was literally an actor (a "performer"). His plays are filled with fast paced conversation, showy forms and spectacle, realistic, complex and colorful sensory images and fast moving plots. He innovated very little in the forms of plays, his comedies generally ending with traditional marriages and his tragedies ending with as much external signs of destruction and anguish as possible. Even his poetic style is very traditional and can sometimes feel rote, though in this as well as in the matter of the overall form of the plot his natural genius usually came through to powerfully illuminate the traditional.
He definitely had strong Intution, because he was a genius which often implies the high development of many faculties. But he was a definite S dominant, in my judgment.

Samuel Beckett, in my opinion the greatest prose-poet of the 20th century and one of the greatest geniuses of literature of all time was likely an ISFP, known as the "Composer," and is sort of like the introverted Shakespeare. Which is what he comes off as when you read his style. He is one of the most Shakespearian writers ever. And in fact if you read the chapter of Jung's Introduction to the Psychological Types, the description of the Intuitive Sensing type is almost an exact description of Beckett. The Subjective Sensations are so overwhelming that when they are expressed, if one can even express them that is, they seem strange, otherworldly, as though the person sees something completely different than "what is really there" when they see the world, even though the impulse comes from the senses rather than the intuition. Jung himself says it is the characteristic type of "Modern" artists, which might include people like Picasso, Kandinsky, and many other Impressionist, Expressionist, or post-Expressionist painters. Again, Beckett's Intuitive function was likely highly developed, but this is not necessarily a rarity among S's.
I would not be surprised if Beethoven was also mistyped in your data and is closer to this. (as many other "composers," hence the name. Music is highly sensory, though it is certainly found across the board)

Henry David Thoreau, in my opinion, was an ISTJ, that is the "Inspector." He was possibly but less likely an ISTP, "Crafter." His life was spent in a material pursuit of "Nature." He was in love with and OBSESSED with being in Nature, feeling nature, experiencing nature bodily. He LOVED facts. He accumulated notebooks and notebooks full. He was a botanist. His last great work that he spent 20 years on and never finished was a "Natural History of Concord" detailing painstakingly the "progress of the seed" and the changes in the forests. All this of course did not preclude him from being one of the greatest life-philosophers in our Literature, a genius in abstract and metaphorical thought, and one of the greatest pure prose writers ever. And a leader in his quiet way through his powerful force of character.

So anyway that is my take. I think that many people jump to the conclusion that if someone is a good creative artist or writer they must be N dominant. I think F. Scott Fitzgerald was ENFP, the Champion. Nietzsche was INFP/J, the Intellect or whatever. But this is not a requirement, and as it plays out complexly in real people and in real geniuses, S often can take the lead. I think many historical figures have been poorly typed so please don't hold that list up as ANY kind of evidence. It is at best a fun game.
That is my INFP take. Please read the chapter on Intuitive Sensing in Jung's Introduction to the Types NOW. Sensing is more complex than I think you realize, although Intuiting maybe sounds cooler.

• reply

This approach on intelligence reminds me of Piaget's theory of cognitive development and his stages of development disregarding the ages he gave for those stages, particularly the concrete and abstract stages. It is said that only about 1/3 of the population or so ever reaches the final stage in his theory (abstract thinking). http://www.simplypsychology.org/piaget.html for more information on this theory if you're interested in reading :)

It's rather interesting that a lot of the people you mentioned are INs or at least stated to be. It would've been interesting to see a little more insight as to why that may be. I do agree that while each type does have their own skill set, in the big scheme of things intuitives on average are more intelligent as far as deeper thinking, seeing the big picture, thinking of possibilities (in that, creative thinking), etc. goes. However, this shouldn't be a reason to pass off Sensors as not as influential. I tend to think a lot of our politicians here in the states are SJs (or perhaps SPs), particularly a lot of our previous presidents. If you mean influential in the sense of change or innovation, then intuitives would be considered more influential for sure. And btw, I am considered by the MBTI to be an INTP.

In that, I will admit I too am prone to think that intuitives are more intelligent and to be slightly biased in that sense too. Most of the people I know in my life are sensors and they frustrate me with their more shallow thinking and inability to think and see past the present moment. I do however admire their being able to care about "practical" things and only wanting knowledge that's useful. I like knowing things for the sakes of knowing even if there's no way or need to directly apply it, although I love seeing the concepts behind such things.

• reply

"Now I know what I'm saying will piss a lot of people off and I think that's good. It pisses me off even more to see people not talk about these things or even propose them. So rather than me be pissed I'm gonna make you be pissed for a while. If what I'm saying is such BS show me why. All the smart people I talk to about this kind of stuff know what I'm talking about. They might not explain it with the MBTI, but they know what I'm saying is true in their own language. There are certain parts of life that can be proven through a number of tools, and the S/N relationship is one tool proving a reality of life and evolution. Some people are smarter, better, and more capable. Not very socialist sounding is it? Oops."

---

The thing to remember when writing an article, which has a strong standpoint and conclusion, is to find and fill the holes in your argument before your audience finds them. I will admit that at first read, it was quite convincing, but as I read through the comments and the information processed through, there were a few things that stood out. Just for clarification, I'm not saying that you cannot firmly believe in what you've come to the conclusion of. I am just suggesting some things that could strengthen the presentation of your argument and further the understanding amongst N's and S's (which is what seemed to be your intentions from some of the comments above).

First of all, when a person is writing an argument (and plan on publicizing it), they should be aware of who their audience is and how they will come off to them. In this case, it's anyone with access to the internet and anyone who has an interest in personality types- all S's and N's alike. It's safe to say that with a statement like yours, S's can/ are going to be defensive, especially if they do not see what you're trying to say (and they won't most of the time because that is exactly the S nature). It would have been wise to use this information to your advantage, rather than to your disadvantage, using your feelings/beliefs (frustration probably) as your reasoning or justification of your stance. Knowing what kind of information an S would be sensitive to would aid you in wording your ideas to get them out there in a respectful and logical manner. If you're already thinking, "they're not gonna like this statement, but whatever" then you should re-word that statement (and there are plenty of ways to say things). Furthermore, S’s are more about detail, so when you pose an argument there has to be lots of facts and figures. They aren’t going to understand when there’s only some numbers with lots of concepts thrown in there- it will seem unsupported to them. They like it when numbers speak for themselves. Hence, when N’s are putting an idea out into the world of S’s, it almost always has to have numerical proof for it to be considered Truth (N’s gotta play by S’s rules if we’re going to challenge/live in an S world). By avoiding these things in your argument, you're not taking the responsibility of the knowledge (of the 16 p-types) that you've gotten the privilege to learn.

On a side note, you should try to be careful with what you say. Because the S nature happens naturally, it would be going against nature's laws to try and change S's views via your counterarguments (which btw were indirectly caused by your invitation of "If what I'm saying is such BS show me why.") If you really paid attention to your essay here, you would see that it has its holes in it (even if you have provided reasons/excuses for those holes- they are still there giving ammo to your audience).

Reading your post, my ability to recognize nuance suggests that your argument is trying to come across as Truth supported by logic, when really it is just another perspective, seemingly based off of your personal beliefs (nicely hidden). Of course, the internet is easily a second home to miscommunication. Hence, the S's will process your information how they do naturally and take it in differently than what you were trying to convey. This is going to happen in almost all social situations, offline or online. Because it is known that people understand things differently, it would have been better to apply more tact, especially because this is an online post. Any post online is always able to be revised BEFORE the posting, but whether that happens or not is dependent upon the poster. You say that you're "not really bashing S's," but that is how they are going to take it no matter what you say. It is THEIR perspective/cognitive processes and your counterarguments (no matter how much sense your point makes to you) most of the time will not change anything. People have a hard time changing the way they take in information and people have a hard time changing the way they put out information. Being humans who came from nature, it's definitely hard to go against the laws that created your mindset/being. Through maturing of our types, we all have the ability to learn how to cope to exist in a world with 15 other personality types.
Lastly to address your actual point, saying that N’s are smarter than S’s is again arguing against nature. Nature does not create a thing that is better than another thing. It is only interpreted (via humans) that X is better than Y. “Some people are smarter, better, and more capable.” This statement you argue is subject to change in different contexts. Being an INTP, I’d say that I am not smarter, better, or more capable in an S world. In fact, through current experiences I am finding just the opposite. Even though I consider myself smarter than average in certain areas in my life, I am not smart in social contexts. This is how one can see the inconsistency in the statement that people are smarter, better, or more capable. Nature creates things in dichotomies so that you can know what the definition of one means (i.e. you wouldn’t know hot, if cold didn’t exist). Understanding other personality types and what their cognitive processes are should be used as a tool to understand and accept, not to compare which is best/better/worst/most annoying/etc. Your paper is proof of people who understand this type of information and yet are not utilizing it appropriately.

The whole point of learning these personality types is to have the knowledge of the patterns that emerge from nature so we can all have an easier time coping with each other. There is no such thing as complete harmony, but we can have an easier time finding the harmony within ourselves if we use this information in the best manner.

• reply

I would say this MBTI is something not to be taken seriously. I do think that NT, NF, SP and SJ are there like there is choleric, phlegmatic, Sanguine and melanchonic. BUt being smart is something else its more on persons self develop.

I think MBTI is true to some extent that each persons ability is inclined towards a certain thing. Every one find something thing easy and somethings hard. Like in childhood it was easy for me to solve maths, but I had hard time understanding other. While it was vise the versa for my friend.

But my friend who was not good in maths and science became an engineer and is working in a reputed science lab. Wow its his MBTI. No, its his hard work, I know how he made it.

Also about E/I and P/J, guys its in your hands, I will describe here:
1. So you are an NT do nothing, sit on net enjoy video, eat your meal, sleep and contemplate (Most easiest thing for NT) you get IP.
2. Now do hard work, burn sweat get your job done but forget about people, you become a confident INTJ.
3. Ok now get interested in people you wanna make friends, have lots of party, you become an hot ENTP.
4. Okay now do work and get interested in people thing 2 and 3 at the same time, you become the dynamite ENTJ.

• reply

I think the thing is not that Ns are smarter than Ss but it`s just that sensors are more simple-minded and not so much concerned about deep things like Ns. They just prefer to live a normal life while Ns feel more like they want to change the world in someway.

• reply

INFJ here.

Your arrogance reminded me of this story I assigned my students (all of them...most of whom were S's) to read and think about critically: http://www.smartercarter.com/Essays/Thinking%20as%20a%20Hobby%20-%20Gold...

• reply

Hi,
Listen. According to MBTI, which stems from Carl Jung's insight into the unique kinds of people that make up our species, there are four temperaments. They have been noticed before throughout history, with the Natives, for example. It's beautiful really, the symmetry that the word "different" stands for. We are each different, each unique. Noone is better or worse, more or less, or, yes, smarter or dumber, than anyone else.

Let me demonstrate to you!!!

SF: they pride themselves on their loyalties and values, and embody their causes with their whole being

NF: they live for the unity of existence

NT: they live in their thought processes, their guided streams of logic and reason, they look for perfection

ST: they live for life!! they experience, they live for here and now

------------

I could look down at you because you are looking for perfection, not seeing the UNITY that IS perfection....

BRO!! Listen.
Break your head over this one!!!

Hahahah. ok I know.

See, I know something that you don't: unity.
You know something that ST's don't: perfection.
And SF's know something that I don't: embodying causes.

We all have stuff to learn.

(If you want to, you can think that you know everything. And you may be a genius!! Be a genius!!!!! BUT, even the most genius person in the world, even ALBERT EINSTEIN, did not know everything. He died still not knowing the formula to everything. We STILL don't know everything.)

So dude...!!!!

• reply

Ohh ok
I looked back at your replies to people and now i feel i have more to say to you, fella.

Who are the people you don't get? The people who seem to know something you don't - so you respect them or even fear them - hopefully you don't, you should just be aware, though, that they are there as nature's system of checks and balances.

The people you don't get are the spiritual people. To put in an image in your mind: the guru on the mountain top. In The Karate Kid, in the Avatar: The Last Airbender (I loved that show!!!), and in reality, the Dalai Lama, some yoga enthusiasts, rabbis and priests.

Dude. you're probably gonna fall in love with an SF! OK!!!?? So there IS something lovely about sensors, even if the non-NT non-genius folk are NOT NECESSARILY ALL ABOUT THE ATTAINMENT OF THIS STRANGE PERFECTION Y'ALL LOOK FOR. Everyone's different. There is no comparing apples and oranges. They're all fruit, we're all people. Who's to say oranges or apples are better.

BTW!!! Have ya heard of the theory of MULTIPLE INTELLIGENCES.

LOOK IT UP WILL YA?!?!?!

The IQ test is a test made by some people. What do we know??

That returns us back to the point we talked about earlier,

that we DON'T KNOW EVERYTHING.

And spiritual people find that we may indeed know everything, somewhere very central to our being, our existence.

enjoy life, dude. (and it's OK if you found my comments confusing. Because your feeling function if your least developed function, you probably will. See, that's why NT's have their blindspot in NF's, NF's have their blindspot in SF's, and SF's have their blindspot in ST's. It's nature!
But again, even if you find my comments confusing, they are meant to show you that you

HAVE A BLINDSPOT. And that we're all human BECAUSE of our blindspots.)

AAAAAAAh
I can sense that this may disturb you. But returning from this place of unknown foreign territory you may become a stronger NT!!)

Adios!!!

• reply

A few points:

1. youre using MBTI wrong... just way wrong.
2. how could you POSSIBLY know all those peoples IQ scores?
3. how could you POSSIBLY know those peoples MBTI types?

the entire premise for this article is beyond faulty and reeks of the need to differentiate yourself as an N away from the S's. Its idiotic.

<-- INFJ by the way.

• reply

First off, Stalin was an ENTJ, and Alexander was an ENTP. JFK, on the other hand, was an ESTP. Second, the quality you're referring to here is insight. Inutitives are more insightful and better at providing visionary leadership, and are also deeper thinkers who see how things fit together. However, insight isn't measurable by an IQ test; the kind of intelligence that IQ tests measure aren't suited to discovering the next Nietzsche, Socrates, or Goethe, so S/N will have a negligible effect (Sensors will probably score higher on nonverbal intelligence, intuitives will score higher on verbal intelligence). But yes, when it comes to revolutionary leadership, vision, and innovation, intuitives are much better at it than sensors are.

• reply

This article is so deeply incorrect and poorly reasoned that it pains me to see it in my Google results.

To begin with, it's questionable to suggest that S/N might have to do with evolution in a "better" direction. Evolution is about survival of the fittest, and the N-most of the Ns often have trouble detaching their heads from the clouds long enough to notice they're hungry, much less that they need to procreate.

Sensing and iNtuiting are two separate ways of perceiving the world, but neither is "pure". Sensing data is not as simple as taking in only what the senses provide, and iNtuiting data is not as fantastic as seeing all possibilities. Both break down into extraverted and introverted varieties, which perform 4 very different functions. Introverted Sensing accumulates concrete definitions; Extraverted Sensing forms holistic environmental assessment; Introverted intuition accumulates reductionist principles; Extraverted iNtuition forms holistic pattern assessment. Your statement coupling Sensing with the material/external world and iNtuiting with the mental/internal world is by definition incorrect, as all cognitive processes are mental and external/internal is a separate division entirely.

I would tend to agree that iNtuitives show up more often in lists of influential people, but I believe that is also true for Thinkers and some other non-MBTI-related groups (artists, scientists, military and political leaders) - and your percentages seem largely drawn out of thin air, sans references and clear calculations.

Moreover, your assertion that great contributors tend to be Ns begs the question of what it means to be a great contributor. Ss by nature are less interested in big-picture changes, and more interested in day-to-day living, with SPs being experts at task performance and SJs being the cornerstones of family and institutions, ranging from the political to the academic. But does your name ending up in a history book make you a more worthwhile person? Ns by nature are often unhappy seekers of change, devoting their lives to theoretics and upheaval and missing out on the very life they are seeking to idealize. And while society may have changed by virtue of N innovations, did it change for the better? As you cited, Hitler himself is the most infamous example of an N - an INFJ, no less, a humanist, idealist type.

If you speak to Ss in real life, they are often passionate about change for the better on a smaller, more practical basis. My mother is an ESFJ and works with developmentally challenged children to give them a better chance at a good life. My brother is an ISTP scientist, recently winning awards for his analysis of and innovations in mechanics. My grandfather was an ISTP fighter pilot and policeman. These are not stupid, passionless, or unworthy people. They simply work on a smaller scale than Ns - and are often more successful at life itself, in my opinion. For every S leader or innovator you're asking for (which, by the way, look at ESTJs, I'm sure you'll find plenty), show me a happy N, a well-adjusted N. For every N that's leading a company, there's a handful of unemployed dreamers who are weighing down the economy.

The main problem here is that you're defining "smart" as people -you- think have been good for this world. Let's take Hitler again, he's a fun example, and pit him against Mother Teresa. INFJ versus ISFJ. Who did more good for the world, the genocidal racist or the humanist nun? The problem is that "influential" people in the history books aren't always actually the most influential - they are the ones who get their stories recorded, for whatever reason - and even then, influential people are not always the best people. How about a new theory: the people who make it into history books are most often those who incite change. Ns, always looking for new ideas, are often the ones to incite change. However, that does NOT make them good at running countries, running businesses, or improving the standard of living or anything else of higher value. It makes them good at inciting change. But change isn't always good - sometimes it's just change. You could say the Industrial Revolution was a huge scientific step forward, or note that it began hundreds of years of rapid, widespread environmental destruction. Not exactly the best in terms of evolutionary survival, ironically.

As to people "outgrowing" S, there is considerable evidence that most cognitive preferences are formed early. Children actually have relatively poor perception, considering object permanence and other cognitive developmental oddities, and they learn abstraction early via language. Something interesting to note is that language is technically all abstraction, supposedly the realm of Ns, but there is plenty of beautiful, fascinating literature written by Ss. While you say that Ns don't lose competency in the everyday, the same remains true for Ss: simply because they do not prefer the realm of the abstract, they do not lose competency in that realm. They do not PREFER to work in that realm. They move "past" imagination to reality.

It's also funny to portray the N as the lone "free spirit" in a pack of Ss, because SPs are very often termed free spirits, and SFPs are notorious hippie types, while it's mainly TJs who are running groups. It's furthermore entertaining that you suggest that we move forward from group-rule to self-rule, being that government is a contract between people for the exact purpose of acknowledging that we are more successful pooling our efforts than by remaining solitary. This is not the difference between animal and human: this is the difference between the uncivilized and the civilized, between the competitive and the cooperative, between those who lack the foresight to recognize that there is life beyond themselves and those who seek a better life for all.

You've pissed a lot of people off not because your idea is revolutionary or world-shaking but because it's faulty logic heaped on top of faulty premises. But then, Ns are, so often, quite divorced from reality.

- N dominant

• reply

The author clearly has a very shallow understanding of MBTI.
It's not about T/F, N/S divides as you might easily think.
Learn more about the different cognitive functions (Fe, Si, Ni, etc..) in order to have a wider appreciation of the topic.
Nowhere it is near the intentions of Jung, Myers, and Briggs to separate smart people from those who are not.
Well, you could interpret any bit of information in every possible way but that doesn't mean that each and every one of those interpretations would be correct.

I also believed this s*** that N's are smarter than S's when I was introduced to the topic. Then I read up on the topic more and found and gradually realized that that is not true. Read up on recent developments on the field like Lenore Thomson's and John Beebe's works.

Note: Lady Gaga definitely projects a no-nonsense-crazy-s***-grab-b*lls ESTP image in most of her videos and performances, But I genuinely believe that she could be an INFP from most of her interviews.

Another note: Mother Teresa is another influential S: a rumored ISFJ. You could say that yes, there is a disproportional amount of influential N's compared to S's given the former's relative rarity. But that does not mean that being N CAUSES that. Correlation /= Causation.

I'm an INTP by the way.

• reply

INTP here.... I think most N's always feel disconnect from the society in general ... they strive to give their best efforts to get recognized in the society (((much like a child trying to connect to step mom...hates any kind of rule she imposes and constantly trying to outshine his step-siblings)))... because of their constant effort they are most likely to make it to the top ... it might be possible that whenever you might be mistakenly typing a smart Sensor as N based on stereotype ((( I find it weird people typing Aristotole/Plato ...cats/dogs.. 5 year old child... when most people cant even type themselves))) ... I believe the world is moving towards higher abstraction (Newtons laws -> Einstein's general reletivity -> theory of everything) , so the world would become a better place for the intuitives in general.... NTJs will always be the most successful .... success for the NTPs depends mostly on science funding from government which would be cut to a minimum in the future ...hence their future is doomed ...

• reply

Also I believe Hitler may have prepared his own IQ test questions to get such a high score.....

• reply

While I think your hypothesis is correct, there is way better data available to make the argument (there is data on the % of gifted students, by MBTI). My central problem is that the IQ data is made up in many cases (some of the people on the list predate IQ tests), the MBTI assignments are highly conjectural (and often the assignment of an N is based on the fact that somebody was influential in the first place), and most importantly, I don't see how the list is a representative sample.

Oh look I made a list:
Henry Ford: ISTJ 140
Robert E Lee: ISFJ 180
Richard Nixon: ISTJ: 140

S's must be supa-smart!

So how can you conduct a better empirical test? Well for starters, don't select on the dependent variable (I suppose you can argue that there are more S's than N's, therefore the prominence of N's in the list of influential people shows something). Focus on people whose type is actually known, not ass-backwards typing of historical figures. And read up on conditional probabilities before looking at IQ AND influence simultaneously. Your list doesn't actually tell us anything about IQ, because it is only looking at people GIVEN that they are influential people. Perhaps high-IQ S's are less likely to be influential. You are slicing off a tiny segment of the population, one that we know is unrepresentative, and drawing broader inferences. That is just plain sloppy.

Recommendations:
A. find a basic book on research design principles.
B. don't quit your day job.

An aside, I find it staggeringly improbable that the average IQ of any list of influential people (unless it is a list of great researchers and scientists) well over 140 (which is over the top 1%, and was probably even rarer in the past due to the Flynn effect).

• reply

I think you need to get your facts straight. Several of the IQs in your list, such as Lincoln, Darwin, and Einstein are inaccurate (Lincoln’s was around 130 and Einstein’s and Darwin’s were around 160). Given your incorrect data and lack of any sources, I don't think anyone should bother to trust your typings of famous people either. Most, if not all, of the US presidents are SJs (authority, remember?), so your typings of Kennedy and Lincoln are incorrect. Michaelangelo was very likely an SP, given that he was such a gifted sculptor. Also, I don't see how you can assert that Barrack Obama is just an entertainment figure when right above that, you say that intelligent people run countries. In case you haven't noticed, Obama is our president! I presume you think he’s not that intelligent because he’s an SJ? For some reason, you contradict yourself about government leaders. You say S’s are only “puppet Prime Ministers and Presidents”, yet you say that only N’s are smart enough to be world leaders. Then you (incorrectly) put Lincoln and Kennedy on your list of high IQ Intuitives to assert that you think they are intelligent. It seems that you’re trying to assert that government leaders are smart but only if you think they are N’s (*cough* bias and inconsistency *cough*).
Churchill and Napoleon were two other great leaders, and they were SPs. Napoleon is actually considered one of the most influential leaders who ever lived. My viewpoint is that if you, “slayerment”, encounter Sensors who meet your qualifications as smart, influential leaders, you'll either chalk them up as exceptions to your own psuedoscientific rule of Intuitive-only intelligence or incorrectly type them as N's. Forget that Picasso was one of the most influential artists who ever lived, forget the incredible presidents, prime ministers, and leaders whom I've mentioned above, forget that Warren Buffet (who by the way, is an SJ) a wildly successful businessman and CEO in the free economic market, which you previously stated was only smart enough for N’s. If even the most successful person doesn't meet your ever-changing, narrow-minded scope of intelligence, then s/he probably isn’t smart to you anyway, right?
On another note, why don’t you consider artists and performers influential people? Marlon Brando and Bob Dylan are two examples of people who completely revolutionized their respective fields, and they were SP’s. How does that make them less accomplished? They were leaders in their crafts, weren’t they? You can chalk them up as exceptions to your “rule”, but you have to consider that most art-based fields are Sensor-based. If you wouldn’t consider their accomplishments, then why are Picasso, da Vinci, and Michaelangelo on your list of accomplished people? (BTW, your score da Vinci is overinflated. Also, it’s stupid to make a guesstimate of someone who lived so many centuries ago, when IQ tests are a recent development).
Furthermore, considering your incorrect evidence on who is which personality type, your speculations on the trends of N's and high IQs are void. And even if there was a correlation, correlation DOES NOT equal causation.
Your point about evolution is stupid and completely incorrect. Sensing and Intuition preferences are inherent and present from childhood. Children do not “outgrow” their sensing preference in favor of intuition. That’s not how Personality Types work. In fact, everyone has sensing and intuition, according to Jung. Some people just have intuition in a higher preference than sensing, and vice versa. Please stop asserting that Sensors have no intuition, because they absolutely do. All people have varying degrees of Thinking, Feeling, Sensing, and Intuition.
In no way is Myers-Briggs at all connect to evolution. Evolution is the process of natural selection which allows the organisms suited to their particular environment to survive and flourish. Besides, if it were connected to evolution and if N’s are superior to S’s, wouldn’t the S’s die out, leaving more N’s by default? Also, animals don’t evolve into humans in one generation and individuals don’t evolve over the course of their lifetimes. That was a terrible, terrible metaphor you tried to make at the end.
I agree with your point that some people are more capable than others, but your essay (i.e. rant) did nothing to prove that N’s are the ones who are inherently more capable than S’s. You’ve only listed the people who meet your biased interpretation of intelligence, and there are several mistyped Sensors on that list anyway.
Instead of crafting an argument of any worth, you’ve created a psuedoscientific and fairly offensive article. Furthermore, you’re contributing to S vs. N misinformation online and creating more stigma in the Myers-Briggs community. I truly hope that no one reading this article believes your drivel.
I’ve made my attempt to spread some truth and reason, but as Mark Twain says: “Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.”

• reply

Do you consider mbti entertainment? Cause it was developed by an S! That's not me being mean. That's me being accurate. Soo

• reply

Sorry, but this terribly worded and obviously biased post doesn't prove anything. It's true that Ns are often perceived as more creative. Maybe that is what you meant to convey - the innovation that often comes from intuitive natures, and the leadership that can be derived from that.

Your main failures were assigning IQ scores and MBTI types to people dead long before either theory was born. You likely didn't do the guess work yourself, but you have to know that's all speculative. Never mind how much IQ tests don't measure. Also, good luck compiling an unbiased list of the most influential people

This is coming from a very strong intuitive, by the way. Please don't make us all sound like assholes.

• reply

maybe you should start here.....

http://www.cognitiveprocesses.com/index.cfm

• reply

Quinton, take note of the intp above describing Ti-Ne-Si-Fe. INTP's understand cognition better than anyone. Both Jung and keirsey were INTP's. Im an ENTP and it took my Braniac intp son a few weeks to teach it to me properly. once I grasped the cognitive patterns it was like seeing one of those hidden 3D models! This after 18 years of strictly following the MBTI. Like you I spent this year writing a book and developing a website I believe you will "Get". Its at

http://www.Godtype.com

Now I've gone full circle.... my intp friends and son don't get what I discovered based on their understanding! "Time and Space" is just to vast of a subject and intp's need to fully understand something before they give it any credence...

Godtype.com Ties human cognition and its breakdown within the human population with both the Bible and Time and Space. The coincidences are just to many for my ENTP brain. You will see them and understand it quickly... ....

• reply

Lady Gaga is an INFP. (Her efforts to 'stand up' for bullied children) I don't support him, but Barack Obama is probably an INTJ. (Judging from his analysis of T.S. Eliot and how his ex-girlfriends described him) If you want your article to have some credibility, please don't let your personal biases to get in the way of your judgement. Science is science, politics is politics.

Also, how did you come up with those IQ scores? Highly improbable that Shakespeare sat down and took an IQ test as a child. Does a correlation exist between talent and iQ? Michelangelo was an artistic genius, but I haven't heard of iQ tests that measure artistic talent.

i agree that Ns are *conventionally* 'smarter', but people with the S function have their cognitive strengths as well. My S friend is good at small talk and hands-on tasks that make my head hurt. Granted, tying a perfect bow won't change the world... but we're not here to change the world now, are we? If one knows how to live a full life and love the people around him, perhaps that is intelligence. :)

• reply

hey, all waht you said is right! I hate it that those sensors are trying to tighten my grip, but they can't for long...

I hate japan cause it is all bunch of sensors creating a goverment. It sucks how they try to draw me into their rabbit holes emotionally, I want to find a shot gun and boom blast them all. But what can I say, enough patience and developing strong boundary functions, I will no longer have to cope with them, but rather enjoy that they cannot influence me anymore.. And guess what! I'm a doc and I know some docs are plain idiots, others suprises me by amazement!

• reply

Ok
Let me make this straight
Intuitive people are not "better" than sensors over ally speaking
It's just that they have different strengths
Intuitive people generally think deeper and are able to apply a knowledge in a deeper broader way
While sensors get facts for facts and follow them in a way intuitive e are unable to
Intuitive a think
Sensors act
They both can be leaders
But iq speaking intuitive are higher because they READ BETWEEN the lines where as sensors read the line so carefully they can tell you what's the line made of physically

Ok
Now regarding leadership
I would say entj
E vs I : enjoy working with or working for the crowd
N vs s : fact for fact vs fact for future
F vs t: bias vs unbiased
J vs p: far sight vs near sight

• reply

I don't understand one thing. How can you know the IQs of dead people who didn't take the test, and why are those numbers, albeit ubiquitous in that list, don't even exist today? Do those numbers come with inflation included or something?

• reply

“There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics”

I have doubts about typing dead people because they use to type for what have been written and any feeler can sound like a thinker while writing and being straight to the point and so on.
I’m not sure – have doubts- Plato was INTP and many other dead people. About Shakespeare I guess you people might know he could of never existed. Socrates (who they use to say was a INTP) also have high possibility of been just fictional character created by Plato.
So I’m just cutting dead people from your list.
And I would like to point out your research and statistics are subjective once you may think you’re an NT but I would say your text sounded pretty much SPish and as your arguments as well.
That being said, I would like to say that it might be probable that most ideas born from either INFX or INTX but theirs is no point on birthing ideas around and do not make ‘em come true. It’s pointless.
As you might know INTPs like theories by the sake of theories and don’t feel the need on applying (read as test) them and most INTPs have ideas and lack the discipline to apply or long test these to make ‘em becoming true.
I’m saying that by own experiences being an INTP. I have great ideas but I’m lazy I am not disciplined to apply my ideas so I mostly try to give em around and see if somebody (probly an S) apply ‘em.
Let’s suppose the idea –which is important of course- is a seed, but it can die and turn out anything useful, so there is a need of somebody to turn that seed out a tree. There is the importance of every type. Preferences doesn’t make any type best than another.
“Vision without action is merely a dream. Action without vision just passes the time. Vision with action can change the world.”
To add more information for your list: Steve Jobs was a ISTP (http://careerassessmentsite.com/assessments/mbti/965-celebrity-mbti-istp...).

That’s my two cents.

• reply

Hey great article. I've always said S for stupid, it doesn't normally take much time talking to a sensor to work that one out. Although as you have pointed out they are useful as they will follow protocol without question.
Now I noticed you have Einstein's IQ as 200, I can't find any evidence to back that up and as far as I know he never actually did an IQ test. Could you show your sources?
Thanks.

• reply

If you count an IQ test as a measure of intelligence, I would suspects that N's do better, since most of those tests test exactly what N's are good at: relationships between objects and patterns.

I think N's think they are smarter, and that might be true, but it doesn't matter. There is no way in hell I would let Einstein build my house, or fly my plane or operate on me if I got sick.

He was good at what he did, but in order for the world to go around, you need people with other skills as well.

If I had to choose to live in a world with just S' or just N's, I think I would go with the S'. Then things would actually be done. I would have a hard time finding a stimulating conversations, but the overall infrastrucutre would be in place.

• reply

While I can see some truth to this hypothesis, it doesn't help explain why my INTP husband seems to have a harder time getting employed as a professor while his ISTJ friend seems to have no problems at all. The world values the SJ's. Seems like NTs are more appreciated when they are dead.

• reply

Quinton,

Your article was entertaining, fairly well written, and clearly interesting, otherwise I would not be taking the time to write this (and maybe I should find better uses of my time). I apologize if the thoughts I am presenting here were already mentioned and discussed in detail -- I have no doubt that I am repeating some of the sentiments already stated.

For starts, the personality "test" (the MBTI prefers to be called an instrument, not a test) you posted is not an accurate representation of the MBTI test you are using to make your point. The MBTI usually costs money and must be administered by a certified professional. Yes, I have taken the "real" MBTI. Posting a link to one of these faux MBTI questions only adds to the confusion and I imagine has some bearing on the statistics people seem to insist on using as facts for their arguments (wherever this magical data comes from anyways).

Guessing types I believe is also considered an "unethical" use of the instrument according to the MBTI (http://www.myersbriggs.org/myers-and-briggs-foundation/ethical-use-of-th...). I understand that this is all for argument's sake though, but I thought I would make mention of it. Yes, I know discussing this "ethically" would take all of the fun out of it, and you already mentioned that you do not believe in the "pros and cons" of the S/N types as you do not believe they exist. Based on the MBTI descriptions, you do need all types as they all have a role, like in a roleplaying game -- we can't all be a mage, and let's face it, the rogue is pretty cool, and healers are nice to have around.

To go further, these exams/tests/instruments in both the IQ and personality realms were more than likely created by the "iNtuitive" types. Based on this, it could be argued that there is great overlap or bias in what clearly lends itself to favor a certain kind of thinking and way to process information. In this way, it would seem that none of these "tests" really do an accurate job of telling us much of anything as many aspects and results are highly disputed and subjective. In this way, your article puts its faith entirely in the "truth" of these tests and does not account for an entire spectrum of qualities and variables, such as society, upbringing, culture, time, and place that also affect leadership, influence, and so forth -- there were many great women that you left off your list (and I suppose we could argue that based on these tests and your list there is also a gender bias). What personality type were Amelia Earhart or Mother Teresa, for example? We can only guess, which is deemed unethical by the MBTI anyways. But really, just for fun . . . I'm sure somewhere the unfailing, paramount of truth that is the internet has the answer.

To continue, the examples you use are completely based on your value judgments. For instance, you appear to place little value in the entertainment industry. Influential people were entertained or were even entertainers themselves. There are a host of the "N" types in the entertainment industry. Stanley Kubrick (a mage type, no doubt) was probably an "N," but that's just a hunch. Clint Eastwood (a rogue type), another notable director and iconic figure is labelled an ISTP (how unethical). But this is the entertainment industry: who needs that? By your argument, all presidents had some influence and were great leaders. Also by your logic, you consider them pawns when all of the names you mentioned were also pawns for someone else, realistically and in the grande scheme of nature. What about great authors? Are they also needless entertainers?

And to conclude, if you are claiming to be an "N" type, I'm surprised that you would put so much stock into labels and categories like the MBTI. Does being associated with an "N" type personality label makes you "feel good" about yourself? And I don't need to mention that your article was entertaining in a Rush Limbaugh kind of way -- I don't think I've read so many ad hominems in one article. But it was interesting and obviously something I was doing a little research on.

Well, enough playing devil's advocate.

Kisses,

-ESFP/INTJ (on a bad day)

• reply

Quinton,

Thank you for taking your time to respond. I came back to this and decided to go through some of the previous comments, and when I did, I realized I reiterated many of the posts above, namely Andrew Parkinson's. So, that was pretty much a waste, but again, thank you for taking your time to respond. I probably wouldn't have bothered posting if I had read those first.

But while we're on this . . . I see now what you mean about entertainers and the like. I suppose I will add to that and simply say good actors, like Marlon Brando or Heath Ledger, really brought a vision to life, and actually had visions of their own. They told the director "I want to do it my way" and came up with their own vision for the character. Christopher Nolan, whom I believe to be a good director, had a great vision for another person's creation, but it was really Heath Ledger, the actor, who made the movie in my opinion. Of course, it really is a symbiotic relationship. The same goes for “The Godfather” or “Apocalypse Now.” The vision was great and well done (both movies based on books, of course), but Marlon Brando used his method acting skills to bring those characters to life. I would hardly say it is just "entertainment" -- there is so much depth and analysis one can do on that character alone (and it is speculated, based on internet information, that The Godfather is an INTJ. Funny, and Brando, speculated to be an ISTP, convincingly acting as an INTJ?). Either way, they were both visions based on a creation that was really the idea of someone else. And even to that end, Stanley Kubrick, while he brought stories to life, really based his ideas on a lot of books. Of course, Ridley Scott did the same with some of his biggest movies as well as a host of other visionary directors. I am in no way discrediting them for their vision or greatness, however as they are two different mediums. Also, this isn't to say I don't understand what you mean when you speak of fickle entertainers, but something to that effect would be "Glee" for me -- I really don't see the draw. Or even worse . . . American Idol. To that end, I completely agree with you. It was really about sorting out what you meant by "entertainment." Also, I especially liked your John Williams example. All this to say, I think we're on the same page here, I just want to clarify, which is difficult to do through a form of communication like this. If we were face to face having a drink, I'm sure this would all go completely different. Or, perhaps we will evolve some kind of telepathy to make this all easier.

And we all "judge" people. I have many "sensor" friends (at least this is how they came out on the MBTI) that are terribly judgmental in areas that I find utterly superfluous, like petty ethical judgments and so on. While I’ve found they give worm’s eye insight to my bird’s eye perspective, I find some of them to be greatly missing the point, or when trying to have an intelligent discussion concerning, oh let's say Woody Allen's "September" (based on Chekhov, of course), all I get is something along the lines of "not much really happened. They just kind of talked a lot," which drives me mad. But I have to understand that . . . it's true. They did "just talk a lot." But a whole hell of a lot happened when you "look closer," to borrow from American Beauty (or Pleasantville and a host of other books and movies). Basically, it’s all about point of reference; it’s just too bad we don’t have Lorentz transformations for opinions.

I’ll keep going a little more. In some ways, if a movie is too esoteric, I consider it a part of my criteria to attribute that negatively to some degree because it can't be understood on a universal level like Beethoven or John Williams (arguably). For instance, no matter how much I love Tom Waits, there are just some people that will think he sucks, which is a shame. But I can hear it from their perspective and just think they're missing out. But then you could argue "what is the point of it all anyways?" That is a good point. Being an intellectual might help you become a great strategist, but when you become a POW, you're in deep shit! But I think we both agree that great leaders need great bodyguards. Where would Emperor Palpatine be without Darth Vader? When it all comes down to it, it really is about vision, but I try to see it as an inevitable, symbiotic relationship where both perspectives are needed to make the whole, not just the “Ns” alone.

I would be interested in coming up with a better theory that is more comprehensive rather than the "either or" nature of the MBTI. I also wonder if the "N" type is really just a more intelligent person that is drawn to more "intellectual" things, and that is simply all it is -- this "N" thing doesn't actually exist at all. In the little research I've done, I've found descriptions of "gifted" people and children reading like introverted "N" types. Some additional research I was doing on the correlation between personality and IQ can be found here, but it is inconclusive and not entirely reliable:

http://www.wpi.edu/Pubs/E-project/Available/E-project-021508-211201/unre...

Again, thank you for responding. I enjoyed your article.

Carpe Annum,

- Dr. N.T. Jr.

• reply

Hello Again Quinton,

I hate to be overbearing, but I forgot to add something else about the MBTI types that I found interesting in going through your writings and your biography.

I noticed at the end of your response that you mentioned being a good "sensor" means not questioning in the world. I know this is a cute generalization, but I thought I would add something that I've found interesting in my observations about this within the scope of the MBTI.

I have several ISTP friends, one of which recently took the "real" MBTI and after several diagnostics came out as an ISTP -- he actually answered the written questions and came out as an INTJ initially. He also dropped out of college, had his own business, and did quite well as an entrepreneur just like yourself. He is a master of the electric guitar, a multi-instrumentalist, and enjoys composing music, albeit very different from my more conceptual style, but still just as good to my ears. He is also a very good artist and a great carpenter and sculptor and is very concerned with the mastery of these things. He and I have similar movie tastes, such as Kubrick, James Cameron (for the most part), and Christopher Nolan. David Lynch kind of leaves him in the dust though, which is fine.

He questions all of the established norms and dislikes college, our current society, and our current government. He is very much "his own person."

If you read about the ISTP type, you will find that generally they are all about "doing their own thing." That means, they are the natural rebel or rogue type. I have several friends who came out as an ISTP, another of which who's dad is a psychologist and administered the MBTI to him. So that is at least two that have taken the actual MBTI and have come out as ISTP types, which actually surprised me. I get along with them very well in this way as we all greatly admire and value autonomy, not "following the rules" or "traditions." This is not to say that I don't think that these things have their place, they just usually don't sit well with me.

Here are a few snippets of internet info that I've pulled. I asked one of my ISTP friends if he agreed with these statements, and he said they were fair assessments:

"ISTPs are fiercely independent, needing to have the space to make their own decisions about their next step. They do not believe in or follow rules and regulations, as this would prohibit their ability to 'do their own thing.'"

"ISTPs avoid making judgments based on personal values - they feel that judgments and decisions should be made impartially, based on the fact. They are not naturally tuned in to how they are affecting others. They do not pay attention to their own feelings, and even distrust them and try to ignore them, because they have difficulty distinguishing between emotional reactions and value judgments. This may be a problem area for many ISTPs."

"Like most SPs, ISTPs may have trouble with rote and abstract classroom learning, which tend not to be good measures of their actual intelligence. They tend, sometimes with good reason, to be highly skeptical of its practical value, and often gravitate towards classes in industrial arts; part-time vocational/ technical programs can be useful to even the college-bound ISTP."

I read your bio and saw that you also hated college like my ISTP friends. Your generalizations on the teachers and students sounded exactly like my friends, who basically summed up their whole experience as "trite, impractical, and depressing." They would talk of conversations they would overhear and talk about how the professors didn't have anything valuable to say. You also attended a technical college, which is fine. This is what I am referring to in my comparison to you as an ISTP type:

"College sucked. I hated it. The people were dumb. The teachers were dumb. It wasn't for me. It was easy, time consuming and irrelevant to real-world problems. Even though it was a computer school it was terrible. I knew more than the teachers."

"N" types have a hard time hating college, and a lot of them are the "dumb" professors you mentioned. You also clearly mentioned "real-world problems," which is p-r-a-c-t-i-c-a-l-i-t-y, or practical application, a massive XSTP need. You claimed you knew more than the professors about the subject, which sounds exactly like what my ISTP friends would say about hands-on experience. I'm not saying you are wrong, I'm saying that practically speaking in your mind, you might be right. Do you enjoy philosophy, physics, art history, and so forth? How big is the pile of books that you are eager to read but will never have time to? Or are you more interested in getting out there, doing your own thing, and being action/mission-oriented? The former are big "N" giveaways; the latter are a big "XSTP" giveaway.

Have you taken the actual MBTI? I am not asking about how you came out because that is none of my business, but it would just appear that with your value of practical application, computer aptitude (I have another ISTP friend who took a job as a computer technician and learned the ins and outs in one month, which is extraordinary -- did not go to college either) and views that you sound quite a lot like my ISTP fiends. I am just wondering if you have taken it because you might be surprised that you yourself are an XSTP type. I am of course not calling you my friend nor am I concluding that you are an XSTP because I don't even know you and am basing this simply on your writing style and viewpoints, but I think it's plausible.

"He was pretty good at getting traffic from search engines. He showed me the tricks of the trade. This was new to me and very interesting because it complimented my skillset. I knew how to build and develop websites, but I never knew how to market them and manage them really."

It sounds like he was the "N" and you were the producer, which is a big XSTP thing. You could build, but you didn't know how to market or m-a-n-a-g-e. This would have come naturally to you were you an "N" as you wouldn't know where to begin with marketing your vision and strategy for your (his) company. This also sounds like my entrepreneur ISTP friend who got others to do his marketing while he built his products for his business using his extensive skill-set. Either way, I am not trying to take away your pride in your work as I think what you're doing is admirable and you obviously have talent and skill; I am just making a case here because you read a hell of a lot like my buddies.

To sum this up, I think questioning the government, disliking society, and valuing autonomy is more a function of the "P" than the "N," because I have several INTJ friends who are lawyers and politicians and absolutely love it all just for the debate. Also, none of us believes "The man" actually exists -- in the words of Don Draper, "the world is indifferent." Naturally, "N" types can talk for hours on their analysis of themes in books, movies, and overall academia; "N" types would not have fun in a technical field or building or producing something.

These were just some patterns I observed in your writing and sharing of yourself. You also are very to the point when communicating your thoughts and use a lot of concise sentences. This reminds me of:

Punctuation:

Sensing - The period
Intuition - The comma

http://www.quixoteconsulting.com/News_articles/Topics/sensing_intuition....

I would also like to inform you that I am debating with myself just as much as I am with your internet persona -- I enjoy playing both sides, so this is all in good fun to me. Since this article was based on the MBTI, I thought I would throw out a few MBTI related questions. Notwithstanding, I do think it would be especially amusing if you were an XSTP type insulting yourself.

^_^

Huzzah!

• reply

I'm an ISFP.

My IQ is only slightly above average. I'm repulsed by abstractions.

I'm an S because I prefer to feel it, breath it, do it, see it, hear it, smell it. I want to LIVE it. EXPERIENCE it.
I'm one of those persons that gets bored shitless listening to lectures, I'd rather do it, use it.
N's being more 'free'?
If you want to talk stereotypes SP's are the embodied stereotype of being adventures.
All those people doing the most insane and risky things are SP's, living life at the edge. Extravertes more so than introverts.

Having read here and there with some people claiming to be N's, they seem quite dumb for N's. Telling all the lesser intelligent folk they meet in life must be S! So dumb they are! Stupid S barbarians! OMG <-- this reaction seems to be the opposite of true intelligence to me.

70% of those idiots here saying so are S's... 75%-25%, remember? If they all are indeed N, than I hope it will forever be 75-25 so those N's with their shitty personalitys will forever be in the minority.

ISFP out.

• reply

Also, yes I HATE leading. Now why do I hate so and why will I turn down every chance I get to lead?

I hate being bound and shackled into doing things I don't want. I hate telling people what to do, I find it quite uncomfortable too. I'd rather go my OWN WAY. This is my preference and there's nothing wrong with that.

If you so desire to yell at people all the time and having to put up with all the shitty fuss around it, than do so if you enjoy it.

• reply

Hello (Once More),

Thank you again for taking your time to respond thoughtfully and without taking offense to what I wrote. I find it extremely irritating when someone responds with hostility and emotion, and you have managed to objectively look at my posts and follow the reasoning behind them without taking it personally. I was being garrulous more than anything, though.

You are probably right about me looking into the MBTI too deeply. Psychology and theories in general are a lot of fun to banter around with, and I suppose it got the better of me here, even though it was never discussed in any kind of depth. I am torn with the MBTI because I can break it down or at least observe it at work in people, but I am not sure I entirely believe it can be restricted to personality alone, or that some of the elements are really strong enough to strictly constitute personality.

In case you are not aware of this, one more thing I would like to clarify is that the MBTI does not assign percentages to what preference an individual chooses. I'm sure you are familiar with this, but the preferences work like using your right or left hand -- an intuitive type might use some sensing abilities, but an "NT" type will probably have a damned difficult time becoming a carpenter (or enjoy it for that matter) like an "ST" probably would. You are stuck with that preference from birth as it relates to functions of the brain (from what I've read). A sensing type can work on intuition, but it will never come as naturally or as freely as it will to an intuitive type and vice versa -- I can work on a sink, but it will take me more time to get in there and physically fix the problem, or even figure out the details of the problem; conversely, one of my ISTP buddies will just pull out an allen wrench and fix it in five minutes (this has scenario has happened before) without even completely knowing the problem -- it is like some kind of magical mechanic intuition. My "ability," or lack thereof, comes from standing back and figuring out how to dismantle the sink or go about getting to that portion of the sink, and sometimes I see opportunities for making the repair more efficient. But that isn't practical for actually fixing the sink, which is what needs to get done, even though it can be helpful and save considerable time. However, when it comes to impractical things like over analyzing everything until it doesn't exist, that I can do.

Anyways, I hope this clears this up a little. If you are an intuitive, you have a preference for intuition, just like if you are right or left handed. If you are left handed, you can try to use your right hand, but you won't write nearly as well no matter how long you practice. The same goes for personality types.

I've enjoyed writing, and again, thank you for your thoughtful responses. I don't know if you've read this, but here is a funny, over-exaggerated breakdown of the MBTI types just for fun. I don't think I have to tell you this, but . . . don't take it personally!

http://www.xeromag.com/fun/personality.html

Enjoy the introduction on ancient philosophy. Books like these will never leave your stack because you will always want to come back to them. I was not making any kind of judgment on you for disliking college as you can always learn on your own, which is commendable and is something anyone should do whether or not attending college and beyond. I of course always think fondly on this man's wisdom:

"I've never let school interfere with my education."

Zum Wohl!

• reply

This theory categories the perceiving function under two contrasting methods. How can anybody who has been labeled intuitive claim knowledge over the process of sensing without the experience a sensor would have? Perhaps your sensing function is just weaker than your intuiting one, and so you generalize it as weaker. Intelligence is so subjective and complicated that it is nearly intangible and almost guaranteed to be misunderstood in it's manifestations.People always use it to determine things in the wrong ways. Calling somebody dumb because they are not articulate, when being so is a skill based on specific and complicated internal variables manifested in a certain way (not something you could possibly generalize as intelligence, not when if they were clearly separated you would not. You wouldn't say that confidence is a direct result of intelligence, right?) In my math class I, being an INFP, was the "stupid" one. I was a consistent C- average compared to the majority of my sensing acquaintances decent marks :P

I cannot do many things that are so easy for people who are sense inclined. Probably because where my mind is usually busy, theirs are dealing with something else in another realm. I almost failed P.E. class, can you believe that? Both are valuable, and I appreciate the qualities in others that are weak in myself.

• reply

your article is nonsense. it's OK to make leaps of logic, but your "insight" here is just regurgitated pop psychology and pseudo science clearly formulated to feed your narcissism. whatever you claim your motive might be aside, your data (citing wikipedia, typing the deceased, which goes against MBTI ethics, and estimating IQs for the deceased, which is probably frowned upon by most IQ test administrators) is invalid and unreliable, which renders your conclusion meaningless.

• reply

It seems to me that most of the angry commenters on this tag are the stereotypical angry, undignified, and refusing to allow themselves to be wrong, S types. And to whoever said this writer appeared to be an S, the fact alone that he put together the patterns in relation to MBTI, IQ, and historical influence proves in and of itself that he is obviously an N. Nice try, sensor.

• reply

I find this article complete crap. Can you even call it an article? The author makes a stupid claim, gives half ass "evidence" and then asserts that he has proved his case. A "real NT", or whatever he is, would obsessively observe all the flaws of such a theory. This guy just accepts it because the completely subjective--and therefore inaccurate--tests floating around Google gave him a description he likes.

Moreover, the typical IQ exam only tests one or two types of intelligences: recognizing patterns, etc, something that an N would have an obvious advantage. In other words those tests are biased and favor Ns. IQ exams do not test for the other six types of intelligence: spatial, bodily-kinesthetic, musical, interpersonal, intrapersonal, and naturalistic. "Sensors" would probably dominate in those areas.

I don't believe in mbti theory at all, but because of the moron above me said that those people angry with this article are stereotypical "S types" I thought I might add that for the past ten years I have got a very strong "INTJ" with all percentages in 80s-90s.

• reply

(My mother tongue is not English)

Where's my S switch?

As an N I'm a complete sensotard. S types have literally saved my life (and money) several times. I'm really grateful to them.

It was very impressive to see an ISFJ to handle an emergency situation at hand when handling really expensive lab equipment while I was in the La-La land.

I just can not function as a sensor. Driving while paying attention to traffic signs and stuff is hell. One of the curses of wandering mind.

Sports... if you need to loose I'm there for your team. ;) It's pure hell to concentrate physically.

My memory is shit. I like concepts but suck at detailed information. It really created number of problems (aka sometimes lower grades) during my education (currently M.Sc).

I need sensors, badly.

I actually tested as an S several times because I wanted be one. Well, I'm not.

• reply

Personally I feel we need both entertainers and inventors in the world. If we had no one inventing things, then the quality of life due to technology would never advance. On the other hand, if we were incapable of stopping to 'smell the roses', what would be the point of life? Also, the list you have composed of influential people seems to be extremely biased. I don't know how the hell you decided Albert Einstein's IQ was 205, every thing I can find says he had an estimated Q of 'only' about 160.

• reply

I'm saying your list is biased because you were the one who chose the list of influential people. The only fair way to conduct and experiment like this would be to take a list of ALL influential people throughout history and the determine the ratio of Ns to Ss. I could just as easily compose my own biased list, by scavenging for influential people and compiling a list biased in the favor of sensors. Say that experiment were conducted and the ratio of Ns to Ss was far higher. It doesn't necessarily mean that Ns are smarter, it could mean any number of things. Maybe Ns tend to have a different outlook on life, maybe they're just more likely to be interested in things that will have a lasting effect on society. Also, I guess the point about Einstein's exact IQ isn't really that important. It was more of just me noticing something that I thought wasn't true and pointing it out. As for the 'another point you people like to make' speech, I'm a sensor and I don't completely agree with that. I understand that psychologists can read up on dead people and make inferences about their personality based on what has been written about them and their accomplishments. On a side note, I also noticed from an earlier comment you said that you hire Ss because they're very good at taking directions and bow down to authority. I don't know if this is unique to ESFPs, but that definitely isn't true of me. I don't think anyone should be respected just because they're in a position of authority

• reply

I also noticed an inference you made that bothered me. You inferred that because I pointed out that Einstein's IQ was inaccurate that I didn't understand the point of the article. Not true, I understand the point of the article was to point out that Ns are smarter and more influential than Ss in general. I was just pointing something out that I thought to be inaccurate.

• reply

Your understanding of MBTI is extremely weak. Your definition of sensing is *extremely* weak. Use the Jungian definitions; the Myers-Briggs organization took his work and dramatically simplified it to the point of stupidity. Your definition for sensing is extremely weak (as it is from Myers-Briggs material instead of Jungian cognitive functions).

And, the Jungian model is far more useful than what Myers-Briggs presents, and actually lines up to modern brain scans.

I wrote this to explain the function model to people.
http://www.reddit.com/r/intj/comments/18e85z/new_subscribers_to_this_sub...

Your definition of sensing is far more in line with Extroverted Sensing (Se) found in xSxP types, particularly visible in ESxP types. (ISxP types have it lower in their function stack. ISTP's, like Randall who writes XKCD, have Introverted Thinking as their dominant function.)

Introverted Sensing is heavy on factual data over mental models. Introverted Sensors (xSxJ) have this. For fictional characters, I would consider Mr. Spock of Star Trek to be an extreme example of an ISTJ. He might not be as charismatic of a leader as Kirk, but would you call him stupid? He'd crush Kirk in an IQ test. Intelligence is not as linear as you try to portray it. Many doctors and researchers are ISTJs.

Read up on the function model in the link I sent and try again please.

My theory: Intelligent sensors don't feel as strong of a need to "buck the system" as intelligent intuitives. But, bucking the system very rarely works. When it does work, you're immortalized in history. To analogize, "the best cooks in the world are men, but most good cooks are women". That doesn't mean "men are better cooks" or "women are better cooks". And yes, totally sexist example that might not even be true, just seems to be in anecdote.

The most influential people in history are intuitives. I'd bet tons of smart people in history are sensors. The intuitives are just more likely to take risks. For every Julius Caesar there were a hundred failures. The fact that the people who took the big risks and won are more famous doesn't mean the people who did very very well in large numbers and aren't as famous because they made things *more efficient* instead of tearing something down and building something new are less intelligent.

• reply

It seems a lot of the arguments here are either (understandable) knee-jerk emotional reactions, or critiques based on differing definitions of intelligence, or the MBTI for that matter.

Suppose we define intelligence as a measure of cognitive processing power, so that we can say highly intelligent people think (according to their type) in a faster and more efficient manner than less intelligent people of their type, in the same way faster runners outrun slower runners, or stronger weight lifters out lift weaker ones. An smart XXXX will come mostly to the same conclusions as a typical XXXX, only they get there more expediently. A highly intelligent or genius XXXX extends past normal bounds.

We can ask then what are the effects of high/low intelligence on the different types.

I would say that intelligence thus defined would have the most profound impact on NT and NF types. Highly intelligent NT/NFs would have powerful intuitive insights, finding true new ways to think about things. This is how science and art makes progress -- in jumps born of seeing something in a new way. The genius NT/NFs create whole new sciences or artistic movements. They move beyond the current frameworks.

In the same way, dumb NT/NFs are probably mostly failures, because their intuition let's them down. They fail to make significant insights, or worse, make plenty of wrong ones (they lack a powerful T or F to check their intuitions) On top of that, they could lack the ability to "fit in" socially as well as SJ/SF types. (I'm thinking of Milton Waddams from the office, or that "writer" friends who self-publishes a 500 page Twilight inspired book of poetry.)

In a sense, they don't have the mental fortitude to effectively fight against the system, and they lack the S abilities to fit in and follow and utilize the rules to survive, so they get gobbled up by it.

As far as smart and less smart S types…well…...General>Lieutenant>Private. Problem solved.

• reply

This whole article stinks of someone suffering from a little case of narcism. I admit I'm using wikipedia for these descriptions and I'm not a psychologist, but its just so obvious.

Hotchkiss identified what she called the seven deadly sins of narcissism:

1. Shamelessness - Shame is the feeling that lurks beneath all unhealthy narcissism, and the inability to process shame in healthy ways.
2. Magical thinking - Narcissists see themselves as perfect using distortion and illusion known as magical thinking. They also use projection to dump shame onto others.
Arrogance - A narcissist who is feeling deflated may reinflate by diminishing, debasing, or degrading somebody else.
3. Envy - A narcissist may secure a sense of superiority in the face of another person's ability by using contempt to minimize the other person.
4. Entitlement - Narcissists hold unreasonable expectations of particularly favorable treatment and automatic compliance because they consider themselves special. Any failure to comply will be considered an attack on their superiority and the perpetrator is considered to be an "awkward" or "difficult" person. Defiance of their will is a narcissistic injury that can trigger narcissistic rage.
5. Exploitation - can take many forms but always involves the exploitation of others without regard for their feelings or interests. Often the other is in a subservient position where resistance would be difficult or even impossible. Sometimes the subservience is not so much real as assumed.
6. Bad Boundaries - narcissists do not recognize that they have boundaries and that others are separate and are not extensions of themselves. Others either exist to meet their needs or may as well not exist at all. Those who provide narcissistic supply to the narcissist will be treated as if they are part of the narcissist and be expected to live up to those expectations. In the mind of a narcissist, there is no boundary between self and other.

I can see a lot of points 2 to 5 in your answers.

Another list of traits described David Thomas on narcissists:

-Flattery towards people who admire and affirm them (narcissistic supply)
-Detesting those who do not admire them (narcissistic abuse)
-Using other people without considering the cost of doing so
-Pretending to be more important than they really are
-Bragging (subtly but persistently) and exaggerating their achievements
-Claiming to be an "expert" at many things
-Inability to view the world from the perspective of other people
-Difficulty with empathy
-An obvious self-focus in interpersonal exchanges

Most threads on narcism identify NTs as being the most likely to suffer from the disorder, especially INTJs due to your functions. I probably should make a list with a bunch of famous narcissistic NT people and use that as my evidence but thats just ridiculous way to prove my point.

You are like a troll that doesn't know they are a troll, very entertaining.

• reply

My intention when I read this article was to read all the comments because I didn't want to repeat an idea but then I found it tedious and time-consuming and I simply said to myself that, even if an idea was repeated, I would like to express it with my words, so here I am. I don't want to praise you because I think your post is rude and many of your replies (and the comments of others, that I suppose (and some I don't suppose because they said it) are ns that maybe have felt belittled by the sensor world around them) are simplistic (I'm thinking specifically about the ones where you said sensors are dumb, that are only tools and that they only care about not-deep stuff). I have self-typed as an intp for months (years, probably) and I have even thought if I was an infp instead. However, I also consider istp (and isfp?) as plausible options. Why? Well, because I think I have the ixxp functional structure (JiPe) that I see as the structure where I care firstly about forming myself a compass (Ji) to guide myself though life and to explore it (Pe). So, yes, I often seek entertainment, that it's just another form of exploration, but the ultimate purpose is to broaden my perception on things. I wouldn't say I care about concrete things (maybe just having enough money to go by and other basic needs, I guess), but I wouldn't say I disregard them or avoid them. I watch TV once in a while. I can talk about a movie or other trifles. I don't think I'm doing it so unwillingly. I'm doing it to pass time. I do not consider myself a potential leader or outstandingly influent. But I also do not consider myself shallow or superficial. I reflect on things, even the stupid ones. I also analyze my day-to-day life, including the more dumb things I "invest" (actually waste) my time in. I have never felt those things ns have expressed in forums and pages like this and this only makes me doubt. I really wish there was a more objective way to self-type, not an instrospective one, which could be tricky because of ideal awareness and variation in interpretation. I'm saying this because the purpose of the mbti is to classify too (also to understand), so it would be nice to have it all more "even" (knowing that persons of the same type resemble each other). I have tried with visual typing, but it's difficult to be aware of those things (maybe recording me, but even so, there's also room for mistyping due to the same "flaws" or maybe just my flaws: variation in visual recognition and ideal awareness (acting like the ideal self instead of acting naturally)). I'm saying all this (that is more personal), because I don't know with certainty my type (and to be honest I also want to see that consistency between different persons with the same type) and because I could easily be an istp and I feel, well, I feel insulted, because of two reasons: that some part of the shoe fit and I wore it (is this an existing expression?) (specially the non-leadership material and non-influence and slavery concept you use) and because some of those things were false (like the ideas I said before: shallowness and superficiality, also conformity (I would say I'm more resigned that conformed, but I think that can change with will) and obedient nature. I'm not your traditional, do it by the book type of guy and I think some SJs are like that, but some others, maybe more awaken, are not. I'm also not the guy that care about popular and unevolved physical non-abstract things and I think some SPs are like that, but some others, maybe more awaken, are not. I'm saying that probably they tend to to behave like this, but that doesn't mean there's not room for imporvement. Is that what you said about evolution? people changing their gears? like changing type, which could be or could be not?

• reply

Horrible article.
Either;
1. You have no idea what you're talking about.
2. You're being purposefully ignorant and inflammatory whilst appealing to popular misconceptions to get more people to view your blog and you get paid.
3. You're a deluded narcissist.

If it's number one, which I really am hoping it is, check out the Socionics wiki and educate yourself.

• reply

Wow.

Have you ever been tested for autism?

• reply

First, I want to say I always tailor my writing to my audience, which annoys me. Most of my life is spent trying to cope with the fact that ideas must be intricately packaged. If done in an effective-not correct- way, the audience greets the package and accepts, opening happily, without knowing whether a turd or diamond is in the box. Rest assured, even if there is a diamond in the box, you will be considered a turd for wrapping the box in such 'haphazard' way. *Sigh*

Anyway, I am of the theory that dichotomies exist beyond the single letters (E,I,T,F, etc.) ENFP's are smarter ESFP's. ENTP's are smarter ESTP's. ENTJ's are smarter ESTJ's and so forth. If you read the descriptions and think about it, this is so. To me, you can either accept this or buck the system. One of the issues Quinton has is that the S is not willing to make that leap. Instead, they attack his character and article. The ENTP made some excellent points, but admits to playing Devil's Advocate which is fun for his type anyway.

Another truth that I hold to be evident is that an N may not be as practical as S, but surely the N is more innovative than the S, which is why it takes every kind of people to make the world go around. I wouldn't want to live in a world without S's, nor would I want to live in a world without N's. It is annoying and painful for both types to feel like they cannot get through the skull of the other. Yet, S's should understand that it is far more painful for the N because there are more S's. (So, if you happen to be an SF, maybe show some sympathy :-) Humans tend to adhere to pack mentality after all. Which is why introverted-intuitives tend to be more innovative. They don't need your approval as much because their energy is derived from internal sources. They don't need to be out with you as much because it drains them. They certainly don't take your criticism personally either, thinking you are too stupid to be taken seriously

The most beautiful part of this whole exchange is the fact presented by Quinton: the spiritual manifests the physical. I always wondered *why* the majority of people who consider themselves religious and follow *certain rules* of religious texts did not seem very religious in their actions. It makes perfect sense (lol)- The spirituality is missing.

Basically, without N's there would be little societal evolution and that evolution would not be maintained for the necessary amount of time without S's.

I wonder if S's would refute Quinton's claims if accepting them as truth would be better for all of us. Probably.

• reply

I'd also like to add, N's are also more than likely to be liberal than conservative. Also, Obama is an N.

• reply

Speaking as a judging intuitive (and this post wreaks of it, so I'll suppose that it's pretty likely that you are one as well), I have some counter points to make. For one, you essentially said that you can't type someone unless you have an intimate knowledge of them. This is problematic, as you've cited, in some cases, pretty dubious examples of people who have been dead for thousands of years. While in some cases it wouldn't be terribly unreasonable to infer that some of these people were intuitives, it's pretty difficult to say with any reasonable amount of certainty. Secondly, I have no doubt that intuitives are far more inclined to come up with influential ideas that change the world, but what I take issue with is the many completely inane ideas that they've come up with that change the world for the worse (sometimes simply because they were poorly implemented by sensors, and sometimes because they had ideas that served their own goals and were against the best interests of humanity). My point is, is that being influential and changing the world isn't always a Good Thing. Influence is merely an amoral tool whose outcomes are subject to the whims of its wielder. I hope you can drop any biases derived from an almost certainly flawed and man made test and acknowledge that human personalities are incredibly complex, and that cherry picking examples of historical figures whose personalities can't be consistently verified without attempting to provide counterexamples doesn't make for a very strong case.

• reply

I am an INTJ just to get that out of the way. I agree with you that most of the population is s dominant, and that these great leaders were n and had a high IQ. N's are more rational than s type and they make good efficient leaders but it is all subjective. Do good leaders have to be efficient? Do they have to reach towards a goal to be a good leader? I think that there are s types in smaller scale leadership positions. I think that they are more people oriented, and could be better at making people happy rather than productive. Also it is important to point out that most of the people here are n types. We care more about discussions than s types do.

• reply

I'm an INTJ.

First, this was absolutely intriguing.

I have many things to share, but I'll just share a couple.

1. Intuitives really do not have to have trouble with sensing. I've done a bunch of sports, and I've excelled in the sports I had a passion for. I've had a few basketball games where I've scored more points than the rest of the team combined. That really doesn't mean anything to me anymore except that it is only our nature to be intuitive. We can be the same as everyone else, but our instincts tell us that we would really benefit by asking, "Why?" And we do benefit. That's why I understand math the way I do, and it's why I love physics, which is the reason I will make more money than most of y'all ;) (Money is not the ultimate end, of course).

2. I am fascinated at the response. It's obvious from the article that you wanted a discussion to ensue, but if I were you, I would have hoped that it would have been more productive than it turned out to be (unless this really was only intended to make you feel good about yourself). Unfortunately, the majority of the comments have been emotional reactions, both from N's and S's. There were some good comments too. But nobody has really talked about the IMPLICATIONS. I guess the average person would rather get stuck on the details, blinding themselves to learning new knowledge, removing themselves from a position to make use of a truth, rather than finding a way to better their lives. People who say this is not applicable have no imagination, and only base this claim off of the fundamentally flawed belief that anything that makes people angry is wrong and therefore useless.

What I want to know now is how to train sensors to use their intuition more. We are surrounded by sensors who are great people. Even if they are unable to develop intuition successfully, hopefully they will gain more understanding of intuitives. What really bugs me is that they truly believe that sensing is better than intuiting. It gives them results they can touch and feel, as if touching and feeling were real determinants of the value of something.

Also, Obama is an N. He is probably an ENFJ, because he reminds me so much of my brother with the way he talks and feels. Absolutely sickening sometimes. And maybe he is proving to be more influential than you are aware of. I think N's tend to be more liberal... but I think that is a flaw of intuitives. Sometimes it's bad to be in the habit of wanting to change everything all of the time. It only depends on whether it is effective. It depends on absolutely nothing else, like who made it, how it has been used, who likes it, where it came from, how long it's been around, etc...

And way to go for attaching something political to such a correct article. That was well calculated for both an NF and NT audience.

• reply

Also, Karl Marx was certainly an INTJ. Read some of his quotes, or better yet, read a book about him. That is where I really how I came to understand why communism is fundamentally flawed.

After reading lots of information about people, as well as things they've said, it really isn't hard to type someone from the past.

• reply

"I don't know who Faraday was but if he was smart he was probably not an S.
Most doctors are definitely S's since most doctors are morons who only know what they read about in their books written by N's."

I think this golden little set of remarks speaks for itself. You, sir, are propounding your personal opinions as facts, using inflammatory rhetoric to attempt to justify your inflated ego and sense of elitism, and openly ignoring the REAL facts. You are dishing up strawmen as the main course with this absurd mockery of science.

Yes, N types often perform better on IQ tests than S types do, but you're apparently unaware of the fact that IQ tests only measure a very narrow range of thought processes, and that studies have proven that as a rule, IQ and success only correspond up to about 120, after which, to paraphrase, "it doesn't make you more successful, it just makes you weirder."

Sensor types follow the rules, pay attention to detail, double-check facts- something that you could stand to try. If I needed a knee replacement, I'd actually prefer a Sensor surgeon. He or she would be much more likely to sterilize, take longer to do it right and not lose their scalpel inside my knee.

One more thing- you want to claim that "becoming an N" is "evolution", and in the next breath, that you can "choose " to become N, instead of "being a slave". Really? Seriously?
I think I'd like to evolve myself some telekinetic ability, in that case.

If you want to talk about human evolution, first learn how the theory works.

For the sake of understanding where I'm coming from, in case anyone cares, I am INTJ, have a genius level IQ and am a pretty nice, if antisocial, person, except when I read narrow-minded, unscientific, elitist drivel like this that promotes negative attitudes toward any people group.

Sensors invented your favorite foods, sing your favorite songs, likely designed your house and your favorite clothing. The particular Sensor brand of genius colors our world every day- walks down fashion show runways, lands jumbo jets safely, protects our various countries, CEOs massive financial empires. Without Sensors, the world would be in shambles.

• reply

So...

"I think this golden little set of remarks speaks for itself."

So not knowing one irrelevant thing makes you incapable of being right about the thing you actually care about? Okay (this is a huge issue sensors have - inability to ignore facts that aren't in any way important). And were you using your own opinion or someone else's consensus that doctors are "smart" as some kind of proof that he was so obviously incorrect, nobody needed to explain why? Are you sure you are an INTJ? Maybe you were just being lazy, and you didn't want to prove why the average, "store mounds of vocabulary in brain and regurgitate upon reception of examination" doctor wasn't a moron.

Do you know what a straw man is? Give one example of one he used.

"Sensor types follow the rules, pay attention to detail, double-check facts- something that you could stand to try. If I needed a knee replacement, I'd actually prefer a Sensor surgeon. He or she would be much more likely to sterilize, take longer to do it right and not lose their scalpel inside my knee."

Like an intuitive would do that. Like an intuitive would not sterilize because... it's so much a procedure thing? Whatever. That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Also, my INFJ brother wants to become a pilot. Will he be unable to because he is not an S? I don't think so. And who gives a crap about fashion show runways, even if an intuitive didn't know how to look good while walking. (?) There is nothing that a sensor can do that an intuitive could not do as well. There are things, however, that an intuitive can do that a sensor has EXTREME difficulty doing.

"One more thing- you want to claim that "becoming an N" is "evolution", and in the next breath, that you can "choose " to become N, instead of "being a slave". Really? Seriously?
I think I'd like to evolve myself some telekinetic ability, in that case."

Well, I like the example, but you're wrong. An ape can't choose to act like a human, but a human can CHOOSE to act like either an ape or a human. The evolution makes the choice available (in this case). I think he's saying that N's have the ABILITY to exercise intuition, but they don't have to. They choose to. And if you could fly, why would you choose to walk? Because you're used to it? I don't know if a sensor can't, or if they just choose not to use intuitive thinking, but their one dimensional thinking limits them, if anything.

I wonder how to find out if a sensor can develop intuition or not. I'm going to become a math teacher some day, so I really would like to know this. I wonder if it comes partly in the form of "critical thinking." I really don't know. Now, my favorite math teacher was a sensor. I love sensors still. I just think they could accomplish more if they thought outside of the box every once and a while. I wish that they would pay more attention to the reason WHY the right answer was the right answer, instead of just memorizing what they see and repeating it back again later. There would be a lot more innovation and progress in the world.

• reply