This is a popular question that usually arises when having some type of religious or philosophical discussion with people. There are a number of different ways people approach this question, but today I thought about an interesting perspective so I figured I would share it.

Some people say that in order for us to be here right now as people and in order for the universe to exist there had to be some type of creator. And if in fact there was a creator who created everything in the universe, he too would have to have been created. Because of the creator himself having to be created many people will say this nullifies the argument of him being able to create the universe.

The Video Game Analogy

I don't necessarily agree with this line of thinking. Take this example. Say I were to create a video game that was fairly realistic and had characters with pretty good AI (artificial intelligence). It would be pretty easy for me being the creator of the video game to choose to allow characters a certain amount of thinking and reasoning. I could choose to allow them to only know about things that exist within the algorithm or physics of the game. I could choose to allow them to know much less than what is in the real world by only giving them 10% of these physics in the game. Even though these more advanced physics exist in my world, the characters of the game with their intelligence capabilities only use 10% of physics/truth to think, reason and progress.

If I could create a video game that limits understanding could not God do the same? And if I could create a video game that uses a different or lesser set of rules/laws/physics wouldn't it be impossible for these game characters to know certain things I didn't want them to know? Would I need to be created to create a video game that uses these laws and would I be bound by these laws I created? Hell no! Why you ask? I can create my own universes all day long and not be subject to the laws of my own creations. This same logic can be applied to God and our universe.

I know, I know, everyone will be telling me but how do you prove that we are in a video game simulation? I am not trying to and can not prove it. I am simply supplying some food for thought. It is totally rational that we could be in some type of "simulation" or "video game" and we are following a certain given set of rules that limit us in one way or another. Just because we can only go so far in this world, doesn't mean somebody else can't.

Conclusion

I really do think that thinking of space in terms of a video game makes things much more clear. The video game is it's own little world of cool things going on, but there is also so much more out there!

I think this example of a video game simulation gives strong merit to God not having to be created for our "creation based" thinking and universe to exist. I really do find it hard to believe that since this universe was created God had to be created. That doesn't make sense to me at all and this is one of the reasons why.

 Filed under: Spiritual, Life, God

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Quinton Figueroa

Quinton Figueroa

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El Paso, Texas

I am an entrepreneur at heart. Throughout my whole life I have enjoyed building real businesses by solving real problems. Business is life itself. My goal with businesses is to help move the human ...

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13 Comments

Korihor: If You Could Hie to Kolob...

If You Could Hie to Kolob:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/If_you_could_hie_to_Kolob

(There are more versus that open the rabbit hole even wider...But as it stands these will suffice.)

Anonymous: That is a terrible analogy.

That is a terrible analogy. Regardless of what your characters could discover, you, the creator, were, indeed, created.

Quinton Figueroa: You are totally missing the
@Anonymous (view comment)

You are totally missing the point. Regardless of how many sets of rules I put in video games, I am never trapped by those laws. You're saying that things outside of time and matter have death, and it doesn't have to be that way at all. Outside of the video game of time, matter and everything else WE know things don't need a beginning or a creator.

I am not saying, I created a game therefore God created a game. No, I am talking about the laws of the game. If I created laws in a video game I am not limited to those laws, I am above them. If God created this video game he is not trapped by these laws (ie: needing creation). It's really a fairly simple concept :). Re-read the post and put some more thought into it if you need to.

Anonymous: Interesting

This is interesting actually and has some good points. This idea is smart because it can be proved correct if somehow we obtain the knoledge but it can never actually be proven incorrect if you think about it. Nice job :)

Anonymous: hmm..ive never thought about

hmm..ive never thought about it that way. and i do think about it..even though i feel like i should just respect it and not question. but sometimes my mind cant help but to wonder. i think u made sense.. :-)

Anonymous: You bring up an interesting

You bring up an interesting point, though you miss the real question, in theory, perhaps the "viseogame charachters" wanted to know, if the had a creator,who created him/her. I belive there will always be more questions. Supposing god does exist (I'm not saying I belive or don't beive) then if someone created him/her, we would want to know whothier creator was and so on,I,personaly don't think there is an answer...

Quinton Figueroa: How would my video game
@Anonymous (view comment)

How would my video game character want to know if he had been created if he wasn't able to reflect that deeply? What if all he could do is process information similar to a computer? Does your computer wonder how it's created? If it does, then you can dumb it down even more.

What I'm trying to get at with my analogy is that you can create the characters anyway you like. They don't all have to have the ability to understand physics. What if you slow their internal CPU down from 20Ghz to 1hz? Don't you think that will have an impact on the way they think? What if you take away the parts of their brain that allow them to reason? What if you take away the emotional parts of them? There are infinite ways on how to create a reality that I find it simply limited to think that our way of thinking is anywhere close to the "truth" of what a creator or all encompassing oneness would "think".

I think you're looking for 3rd dimensional answers to a 4th or higher dimensional question. As Einstein said, "No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created it."

Ranjan.D: God created this universe

God created this universe and we all leave on tht, lot many peoples ask why he created ? the answer is its for our wish and desire only. There are 84lakhs species in this earth among them 4lakhs are human beings. Its very difficult to get this human body, and one has to thing about God , because he;s our real father and one should never forget. He had created us because he have become impure and so we birth-rebirth again and again then one final day we will get mukti and we will not suffer in this world.. Thing of a flower how beautiful its . do you think it came into existence by itself , it has created by some one why not God? he;s like us but the only difference is he's powerfull , pure and he has the remembrance of past , know further and has control of everything because he's the creator and destructor.

You know one thing all the living beings have sole and that sole is nothing but the minute part of God. If we humans can do research and launch rockets , satellites why cant some one who has the power to create the universe tht you can image its done by God.

There;s a purpose for every thing and nothing can exist itsown. for a grass to wave its controlled and occurring to nature it works and its under control by God's instruction.

You can thing God is done a program which will automatically take care of everything like you can imagine a summer , winder seasons , lunar eclipse etc it will follow some specific pattern and act exactly.

You asked how's is it possible tht he was always there; you know one thing God will be there and he has not death , no rebirth etc like us.. he will be there's with us forever and there's no doubt about tht.

You asked if God created universe then Who created God?
Say if 'X' has created God then who has created 'X' say 'Y' created 'X' then who has created 'Y' like tht there will be no end.. its infinite. Its like does Egg or Hen came first can you tell me tht?? no you cant. similary some things are beyond our thinking

razatbir singh: the universe
@Ranjan.D (view comment)

the universe is not that large how it seem to be to us,its the incapabitity of us that makes us thinking such,everything is as simple as it should be.
definetely its simple but our presence only to be on earth hold our thoughths assuming such.

Anonymous: it should be more like WHAT

it should be more like WHAT CAME FIRST THE HEN OR THE EGG ITS A QUESTION THAT HAS A REPETIVE ANSWER example (to have an egg you need a hen and a rooster but to have a hen or rooster u need a egg) but in the god way its (gods creator needs a creator to and that creator needs one too and so on we will never know

Esteban: Actually, scientist found the
@Anonymous (view comment)

Actually, scientist found the answer to the egg question: the chicken came first.

Himangsu sekhar Pal: Who created God?

IF GOD CREATED THE UNIVERSE, THEN WHO CREATED GOD?
Earlier it was impossible for us to give any satisfactory answer to this question. But modern science, rather we should say that Einstein, has made it an easy task for us. And Stephen Hawking has provided us with the clue necessary for solving this riddle. Actually scientists in their infinite wisdom have already kept the ground well-prepared for us believers so that one day we can give a most plausible and logically consistent answer to this age-old question. Let me first quote from the book “A Brief History of Time” by Stephen Hawking:
“The idea of inflation could also explain why there is so much matter in the universe. There is something like ten million million million million million million million million million million million million million million (1 with eighty zeroes after it) particles in the region of the universe that we can observe. Where did they all come from? The answer is that, in quantum theory, particles can be created out of energy in the form of particle/antiparticle pairs. But that just raises the question of where the energy came from. The answer is that the total energy of the universe is exactly zero.”
Here the question stops. So the clue is this: if we can ultimately arrive at zero, then no further question will be raised, and there will be no infinite regression. What I intend to do here is something similar to that. I want to show that our God is a bunch of several zeroes, and that therefore no further question need be raised about His origin. And here comes Einstein with his special theory of relativity for giving us the necessary empirical support for our project.
God is a Being. Therefore God will have existence as well as essence. So I will have to show that both from the point of view of existence as well as from the point of view of essence God is zero. It is almost a common parlance that God is spaceless, timeless, changeless, immortal, and all-pervading. Here we are getting three zeroes; space is zero, time is zero, change is zero. But how to prove that if there is a God, then that God will be spaceless, timeless, and changeless? From special theory of relativity we come to know that for light both distance and time become unreal. For light even an infinite distance is infinitely contracted to zero. The volume of an infinite universe full of light only will be simply zero due to this property of light. A universe with zero volume is a spaceless universe. Again at the speed of light time totally stops. So a universe full of light only is a spaceless, timeless universe. But these are the properties of light only! How do we come to know that God is also having the same properties of light so that God can also be spaceless, timeless? Scientists have shown that if there is a God, then that God can only be light, and nothing else, and that therefore He will have all the properties of light. Here is the proof.
Scientists have shown that total energy of the universe is always zero. If total energy is zero, then total mass will also be zero due to energy-mass equivalence. Now if there is a God, then scientists have calculated the total energy and mass of the universe by taking into consideration that there is also a God. In other words, if God is there, then this total energy-mass calculation by the scientists is God-inclusive, not God-exclusive. This is due to two reasons. First of all, even if there is a God, they do not know that there is a God. Secondly, they do not admit that there is a God. So, if there is a God, then they have not been able to keep that God aside before making the calculation, because they do not know that there is a God. They cannot say that they have kept Him aside and then made the calculation, because by saying that they will admit that there is a God. At most they can say that there is no God. But we are not going to accept that statement as the final verdict on God-issue, because we are disputing that statement. So the matter of the fact is this: if God is really there, then scientists have shown that both the total mass and energy of the universe including God are zero. Therefore mass and energy of God will also be zero. God is without any mass, without any energy. And Einstein has already shown that anything having zero rest-mass will have the speed of light. In other words, it will be light. So, if God is there, then God is also light, and therefore He is spaceless, timeless. So from the point of view of existence God is zero, because he is spaceless, timeless, without any mass, without any energy.
Now we will have to show that from the point of view of essence also God is zero. If there is only one being in the universe, and if there is no second being other than that being, then that being cannot have any such property as love, hate, cruelty, compassion, benevolence, etc. Let us say that God is cruel. Now to whom can He be cruel if there is no other being other than God Himself? So, if God is cruel, then is He cruel to Himself? Therefore if we say that God is all-loving, merciful, benevolent, etc., then we are also admitting that God is not alone, that there is another being co-eternal with God to whom He can show His love, benevolence, goodness, mercy, compassion, etc. If we say that God is all-loving, then we are also saying that this “all” is co-eternal with God. Thus we are admitting that God has not created the universe at all, and that therefore we need not have to revere Him, for the simple reason that He is not our creator!
It is usually said that God is good. But Bertrand Russell has shown that God cannot be good for the simple reason that if God is good, then there is a standard of goodness which is independent of God’s will. Therefore, if God is the ultimate Being, then that God cannot be good. But neither can He be evil. God is beyond good and evil. Like Hindu’s Brahma, a real God can only be nirguna, nirupadhik; without any name, without any quality. From the point of view of essence also, a real God is a zero.
So, why should there be any need for creation here, if God is existentially, as well as essentially, zero?
But if there is someone who is intelligent and clever enough, then he will not stop arguing here. He will point out to another infinite regression. If God is light, then He will no doubt be spaceless, timeless, etc. Therefore one infinite regression is thus arrested. But what about the second regression? How, and from whom, does light get its own peculiar properties by means of which we have successfully arrested the first regression? So, here is another infinite regression. But we need not have to worry much about this regression, because this problem has already been solved. A whole thing, by virtue of its being the whole thing, will have all the properties of spacelessness, timelessness, changelessness, deathlessness. It need not have to depend on any other external source for getting these properties. Thus no further infinite regression will be there.
H. S. Pal

Anonymous: trying to answer that question

trying to answer that question is like trying to expalain to someone born without eyes what color is. how would you explain to this person what red or blue or yellow is..... it just isnt posible, just so it is not in our brains capacity to comprehend God and where he comes from. Becase we dont understand this we try to narrow our existance down to "The Big Bang" (which is nothing but a theory). if people ask where God comes from, may I then ask where the particles that caused the big bang come from, or where the very space it happend in comes from. right now we know pretty much nothing that streches beond our senses

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