I have been doing more research on the Mormons and their believes and have assembled a list of claims that they hold that I find a bit of a stretch. I'm not saying that they're wrong by any means, but I have yet to find enough evidence or justification for them being worthy claims. I will continue to update this page as I find new information.

This probably isn't going to be the normal list of claims because of lot of what they claim has a lot of truth to it and I would agree with. This is strictly the things which I don't agree with:

  1. Adam is our God - In the Journal of Disclosures Vol 1 Brigham Young (the 2nd Prophet of the LDS church) states, "When our father Adam came into the garden of Eden, he came into it with a celestial body, and brought Eve, one of his wives, with him. He helped to make and organize this world. He is MICHAEL, the Archangel, the ANCIENT OF DAYS! about whom holy men have written and spoken-He is our FATHER andour GOD, and the only God with whom WE have to do. Every man upon the earth, professing Christians or non-professing, must hear it, and will know it sooner or later."

    If what he said has been decided to be false by the LDS Church I would like to see in printing where this is refuted as being false. Otherwise it only makes sense to hold as a current church belief. Not only do I have a problem with this claim, I also have a problem that the Mormons I have talked with say THIS IS NOT A CHURCH BELIEF AND FAR FROM WHAT THEY BELIEVE. Well until the church can come to a census as to what they believe why do I need to join an undecided church, that claims to be the one true church?

  2. There is a Heavenly Mother
  3. Jesus was married - In order for Jesus to reach the Celestial kingdom he would have to have been married and have a wife. The Mormons Biblically back up this claim with the John 2:1-2.

    1And the third day there was a marriage in Cana of Galilee; and the mother of Jesus was there:
    2And both Jesus was called, and his disciples, to the marriage.

    They say that Jesus was the bridegroom and was getting married here. Called could mean a lot of things here but to imply that he was married is a stretch... and it would also mean the his disciples were also married! This doesn't add up at all. I got an idea, let's go find some atheists (who think we're both full of crap) and ask them to interpret this verse. That will give us an objective view. We can both pray and ask God for understanding as a follow up.

  4. The LDS Church is the one true church - From my understanding the reason this claim is presented is because they are the only church that has had the Aaronic priesthood restored and without being properly baptized you will are not able to reach the highest level of Glory.

    The whole idea of any church being THE ONE TRUE CHURCH to me sounds so elementary. There is TRUTH and there is GOOD and all churches and religions have some. Some more than others, some less. But from my understanding, it all comes down to listening to all sides and claims and holding onto what you know to be true. If Jesus is God and we need to believe in him to reach a higher glory that is fine and if the facts and everything add up then it is a fair belief. But as soon as a church gets involved and starts giving you their side of the story and being trapped in a container I find that limiting.

    What if somebody has a revelation today that is more accurate that Joseph Smith? Is he now no longer the one TRUE CHURCH? What about claims that the LDS church provides that don't have scientific merit or hold up to the scrutiny of evidence and research? I really admire the LDS church greatly and love how they dive into hard and controversial questions that most Christians simply shun. What I don't like is how they think they are the one true church. If research and studying can lead me to claims by the church which do not hold up or make sense then does that really make it the one true church? I'm not sure, but I don't see any reason why joining it will bring me to a higher glory than not joining it.

    It should be noted, that pretty much any religion or church has areas that will not make sense and not expand upon truth. That is why I continue to stay outside of church and find it extremely important to seeks God's knowledge and follow Jesus. There is nothing wrong with being a part of a church or religions group and for a family it makes a lot of sense. But as far as saying my church has everything right is an extremely arrogant and repulsive statement. The only one who could rationally make that claim is He who we call God. And even then, you should question and seek to understand all things.

  5. They hold the Aaronic Priesthood
  6. You can only enter the celestial kingdom by being part of their church
  7. They only have 1 prophet at a time and many priests at a time This is the opposite of what the Bible teaches. Why would there only be 1 prophet at a time? That doesn't make sense. Only one person can be a prophet of God and once he dies the new one comes in? Doesn't sound like "Free Angency" to me.
  8. HUGE emphasis on prayer and asking God for answers - I totally agree with prayer and asking God to reveal truth, however, I get the sense that Mormons RELY on this. For more information on why I don't fully agree with this please refer to my article on Joseph Smith
  9. You must be baptized by a Mormon priest to be saved
  10. They believe proxy baptism which is baptizing a living person in place of a dead person
  11. They believe in 3 degrees of glory (Telestial, Terresrial, and Celestial)
  12. They believe Adam was the first man on this Earth - To put it simply: Adam was born roughly 4,000 BC. The Earth is roughly 5 - 10 billion years old and there are MANY artifacts that have been found of human species dating WAY before 4,000 BC. Again, the science dating could be wrong, but on this one I would go with science over a claim from the LDS Church. But that is not my only reason for not agreeing with this, if it was maybe I would agree with it. Another huge reason to me is my understanding of the way the world works and the way these ages of "test" are created for us. It makes sense to me that the earth is used over and over again to test spirits and teach them truth. How about Atlantis? That dates back to at least 10,000 BC which is before Adam's date. Once again I could be off on my research, but I think the LDS church is opening themselves up for a bit of non-truth with this belief.
  13. They believe you should tithe 10% of everything you make to the church
  14. They believe you should not drink "hot drinks" like coffee and tea. - I don't think understand how hot drinks will take you further away from God. Maybe they need to explain this to me but this seems ridiculous.
  15. No old documents of the Book of Mormon - The Bible has many old scriptures written in both Hebrew and Greek. Where are these found for the Book of Mormon? The Mormons claim these scriptures were given back to the angel of Moroni. They then ask, where are the 10 commandments then? Well, I don't have a clue where they are, but that is just one small piece of the Bible, not the entire piece.
 Filed under: Spiritual, God, Mormon

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Quinton Figueroa

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5 Comments

Jono: In response to a majority of your posts on God

I am not a mormon, and my response has little to do with mormonism, but some of your arguments really make me wonder. For instance, you claim a belief in God, but to what degree? For instance, you disagree with the Mormon belief that "Adam was the first man on this Earth". To begin with, this is a Christian belief first and foremost. Secondly, I'm interested to see why, if you believe in God, you choose to only believe *some* of the Bible? The bible clearly states how God created the world, and that Adam and Eve we're the first humans.

Quinton Figueroa: Thank you for your Jono
@Jono (view comment)

Thank you for your comment Jono :).

You are right in saying it is a Christian belief as well. I think the Christians and the Mormons are interpreting this poorly.

I would say I believe fully in the Bible as I have yet to find something in it that doesn't add up after a full investigation. I think the Bible is pretty much accurate and with good intentions, but I think problems arise from people interpreting the points of it poorly and the mistranslations which are inherent.

That said, is the Bible really that clear on the creation account? The text may read clear, but I don't necessarily think the meaning pops out without searching for it.

From what I have studied, Genesis has 2 creation accounts. The first creation is of the earth. This doesn't have a specific date but could easily be talking about billions of years ago. Afterwords when Adam is created this is the 2nd creation. This part is talking only about this Adamic age that we live in (roughly 4000 BC - 2007 AD). Majority of the Bible only talks about this age, because it is meant for this age. This isn't to say there aren't many more ages of testing just like this age. It makes great sense and is not in contradiction with the Bible at all, it just expands upon it. Science also plays a great roll in this as the evidence is pretty astounding with fossil remains of humans from far before 4000 BC (Adam).

I welcome your feedback as to what you think about this.

Thanks!

Korihor: Mormon Q & A

Found this on Digg. Just thought I would throw out a few ideas. I am a Mormon.
1. The Adam-God discourse - not enough time to comment, I remember the first time I read it...

2. Here is the way we look at this. 1. We all existed together before we came to earth. We were/are all children of God. We were put here to get a BODY. God at that time before we came to Earth, had a body. We did not being only 'Spirit' children. Therefore to progress in the next step of Heavenly 'Evolution' we were put on this Earth to be tested and to gain a body. (This concept of 'Pre-existance' is in a book we also accept as 'canon' called the Pearl of Great Price.) We believe as Children of God, we will, well, grow up. A dog has puppies which grow to be dogs. Cat has Kittens...Deity has his own offspring. We will grow up. Oh, and how do you have children? Yup. A wife is pretty important. Hence, why the family plays the central role in LDS Theology. God loves us, wants us to not only return to him and the 'fam' in Heaven, but to be able to partake in the lifestyle that he and his WIFE lead as well, IF we live according to the criteria required to qualify for it. So, yes in a nutshell. If we copy the life that Jesus laid out for us and perform that symbolic ordinances that Jesus showed us, Baptism, Holy Ghost, and others, we can carry on our family relationship past 'til death to us part' and continue as a family unit into the Eternities. Where in Heaven if we have children, they will be 'Spirit offspring' and they will have to get a body etc. etc. and the cycle repeats itself with an 'Earth' being created, children to be tested to see if they really want to come home or not...their choice, but I really hope they would want to. Sounds good to me.

3. Was Jesus married? Jesus is the ultimate Do as I do type of a leader. He is the ultimate example. Why was Jesus baptized? He was perfect. He didn't need it. He did it to SHOW us how to do it and to be an EXAMPLE. Therefore, we believe that whatever we are required to do in our religion is only copying the footsteps that Jesus set out for us. It has been revealed that we are to be married. I would wager that Jesus wouldn't want us to do anything that he himself has not already done. Also, to be considered a 'Rabbi' in Jewish tradition one HAD to be married. Period. Were his disciples married? Sure. Why not. Now if you are buying into the Catholic View, that to be a priest or Deacon or whatever you had to be Celibate...well, it is not scripturally supported...and WOW would that suck. Nope. Children are the point and the means in which God glorifies himself. The bigger the happy family, the happier the family.
4. It is either the LDS church, or the Catholics. The Catholics claim 'Divine Authority' through the Apostle Peter. We believe the 'Divine Authority' was taken from the Earth when the apostles were slain and the rate of death amongst the Christians at that Era from persecution was faster than they were able to pass the 'Divine Authority'on to fellow believers. We, the mormons, believe we carry the 'Divine Authority' from God when Joseph Smith was visited by John the Baptist. John the Baptist was a resurrected PERSON (has the same body he had when he was mortal, only now it is perfected)and by PHYSICALLY placing his hands on Josephs head gave him the 'Divine Authority' ie: Aaronic Priesthood. Later, Peter, James, and John the apostles from the BIBLE itself also performed the same ordinance to Joseph Smith, and gave him yet a higher authority Priesthood: Melchizedek.
Can you give out a Japanese driver license if you haven't been commissioned by the Japanese Gov't to do so? Same thing with workings of God. Just because you grab and read a Dr.'s manual on operations doesn't give you the right to perform surgeries legally. Same thing with Religion. Just picking up your Bible doesn't give you license to Baptize etc. etc. So it comes down to authority. Either Catholic or LDS. The rest are just apostate offshoots of the Catholic tree, Protesting, hence the word "Protestant", doctrines of the Catholic Church. Me personally, I've read the Bible in it's entirety. Old and New Testament. I've read the Book of Mormon. They both solidify my belief that Jesus is exactly who he was. Savior and Redeemer of the world, lived a perfect life for me and you so that he could pay for our sins and now he has shown us the path to live up to HIS expectations and not the impossible expectations of Perfect Justice in which we would all be damned. Works for me. Jesus is a cool Guy. He is at bat for us. The Book of Mormon is added proof that Jesus is exactly who he says he is. I'm down with that.

5. Aaronic and Melchizedek Priesthoods. This requires the belief that Joseph Smith did what he says he did and saw what he said he saw. I've read every article, everything I can find about Joseph Smith. Positive and Negative. I've read the Book of Mormon. If Joseph Smith was capable of writing this book from his own mind...well, He is the greatest mastermind to EVER exist on the planet, aside from Jesus himself. His third grade formal education didn't write the book. You seem a big kid. You can read it for yourself and make your own decisions...unless you like paying for your pastor's yacht.

6.Enter the "Celestial Kingdom" by being part of the LDS Church. Let's go back to #4. If we have the 'Divine Authority' from God as we claim we do, we also believe that God has shown us the requirements necessary to return to live with him. 1. Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ 2. Repentance 3. Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins 4. Laying on of Hands to recieve the Gift of the Holy Ghost as your guide. 5. Performing Sacred ordinances in the Temple. In the temple is where we learn the information necessary so that when we die we can give the Angels that stand as sentinels who are guarding the entrance to Heaven this information so that we can get in. We want every one to get this information. You just have to do it in a logical way and live according to the rules that God has clarified in latter day revelation on top of the B attitudes and 10 commandments (Daddy/God wants a clean house) and get the information from someone who has the 'Divine Authority'. The 'black market/underground' may give you the information, but God knows if it was given in the correct manner...

7. Only 1 prophet at a time? No. We have 1 prophet for the world at one time who recieves revelation from God on the Macro/World Level. Aside from our 1 prophet to the whole world, we have 12 Apostles who are prophets, seers, and revelators along with the main acting prophet for the world. God knows how to run his church.

8...I'll skip to 9.Prayer is good and a way that I can recieve revelation for MYSELF. Prophet gets revelation for the WORLD. A Bishop gets revelation for his congregation. I get revelation for myself. I (since I am not in the presidency of the church) can only receive revelation for me and not for the WORLD/CHURCH. That is the hierarchy, there is more to the structure...but for sake of simplicity...

10. We either have the authority or the Catholics. See #4.

11. If we are right and Joseph Smith was given the "Divine Authority" to baptize etc. Then what about all the people who were born between when the original Apostles were killed in the Bible and up to now? They didn't have an 'Authorized' person to perform these baptisms or other ordinances. God knew this and is merciful. God had the temples created for the very purpose of getting the baptisms and other 'ordinances' performed on behalf of our dead relatives as far back as we can possibly find. Therefore we look up our Geneology and perform baptisms for these people.

1 Corinthians 15:
Verses:
12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?
13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:
14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.
15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.
16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:
17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith [is] vain; ye are yet in your sins.
18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.
19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.
20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
29 Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?
(This is a rhetorical question...but we know Jesus WAS resurrected. We know the DEAD will RISE. Therefore, it is logical that we perform this baptism on behalf of those who do not have bodies at this time. God is one merciful God.)

12. Yup...there is a bunch of biblical information...too tired to look it up.

13. We believe Adam was the First man on Earth. Eve was his wife (Lilith is beleived to be the wife that was Before EVE, this is not LDS theology, just thought I would share it). I trust Carbon dating about as much as I trust Global Warming...back in the 70's it was Global COOLING, and SCIENTISTS proposed to put Ash and SOOT on the polar Ice caps to MELT THEM!!!? I agree with a lot of science and technology, but the fossil record and Darwin and methods being used are WAY too bogus for me to buy into them...

14. and 15. I'll lump together. You will not care to follow something if you do not understand the motives to do so. If God restored his Church through Joseph Smith, and God continues to give us instruction today, we abide by His instructions because we know why. Those looking from the outside in just look at it as pilfering of dollars. We have no paid ministry. All the money we give goes to Humanitarian Aid, Temple Construction to serve the members of the Church in Diverse parts of the world. Education programs, printing of Book of Mormon and translating in foreign languages, purchasing of land for more churches, help the poor amongst us and the needy in the local neighborhoods etc. Also, it is symbolic of our belief that by giving a portion of our money to God it shows that he is first in all things, even monetarily. We do anything we can to avoid anything addicting. We want to be able to think and make choices as clearly and concisely as possible in order to lead as good of lives as possible so we can be good people to as many people as possible. 'Damn Do-gooders...'

16. Yup. The Golden Plates were taken back with Moroni. Doesn't matter. Even if you saw the plates it would only satiate a physical curiosity and do nothing for spirituality. Faith is an integral part of Religion. We have been given a lot of information, but God still wants us to decide for ourselves. It boils down to Joseph Smith, or the Catholic Church. I happen to agree with Joseph Smith. People don't like this for it seems to remove all the "Mysteriousness" that they think is supposed to be in religion. It ruins the fantasy for religion to be cut and dried. God is supposed to be some Ghost or some 'thing' that can't be explained etc. etc. Well, according to Joseph. God and his son, Jesus Christ, both appeared to him. They both had and Have bodies of flesh and bone. I agree.

Those are my 3 and a half cents.

thanks.

Quinton Figueroa: Wow, A monster reply! I
@Korihor (view comment)

Wow, A monster reply! I truly appreciate your time and your great response. I am going to spend some time on your response and will update you when I have something new to share. Thank you very much!

Korihor: Keep in mind...

Slayerment,

Keep in mind, the responses I post are not intended to 'convert' or offend. I am just posting answers to questions many people have. This is from the LDS viewpoint. They are quite blunt, I readily admit this. Not wanting to sugarcoat anything. There is a lot of misconception and misinformation about the LDS faith, some information is spot on, but it is put in a 'spin' as to be a negative. Yes, as a mormon, I probably put positive spin on things, whereas A LOT of this 'mormon' theology, can rightly be put in a negative spin since it could be deemed as blasphemy by those who base religion on 'my pastor says'...If religion were my business and livelihood, I would probably attack the LDS faith also...No fun to lose good paying customers... :)

One thing I will say, is that the majority of "religion" is really focused on the "You can't do's" You can't do this...You can't do that...(it turns into a competition on who is 'Holier than thou' drives me INSANE!)...one great thing I like about LDS faith is the refreshing, "by not doing the "can't do's", look at the vast infinite possibilities of the "CAN DO's!"

Nothing is impossible, impossible is nothing.

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